Let Soviet Era War Criminal be brought for trial

[David Thompson]

Everyone -- Personal insults are not permitted in this section of the forum. Be civil or be gone.

[Michael Miller]

Mr. Loughmiller~

This has been my first contact with you- I'm a little amazed at the sudden outburst of fury, but whatever turns your crank. Usually it takes at least an exchange of three or four posts before I arouse such vitriol and outright hatred in another. This is indeed a record.

Shame to lose you, old boy. You've brought much to this forum:o)

Regards and adieu,
~ Mike

[Panzermahn]

Russians will be forever russians..I support the contention of Wildboar and
Keith Loughmiller

Perhaps Russians are ashamed of their country's past but are afraid to admit it

[chalutzim]

(...) Perhaps Russians are ashamed of their country's past but are afraid to admit it

At least they didn't surrender to the enemy, and mounted the most efficient resistance movement during WWII. Something that the Germans never succeed to acomplish, or never dreamt of, when their time arrived, being the only people unable to try to resist its assailants. So it's better you manifest more respect for the Russians and stop making bigoted remarks. One thing it's the Stalinist apparatus and other, totally different, it's the bravery of its people.

[witness]

Ridiculous panzerboy.

[Galicia]

Unfortunately, as Mr. Miller has stated, most of these criminals, even if we tried to prosecute them, are dead. The rest are in high government positions, (such as the Ukraine's President Kuchma). While, Mr. Loughmiller, I can sympathize with you, it might not be such a bad idea to let bygones be bygones. These people lost touch with reality a long time ago, an example of which was the trial of the Ceausescus, who were barmy.

Oh and further more... Latvia didn't give up! We fought till 1957, and there were parts of the Kurland pocket that the "red cowards" would not show there face in. The Soviet army avoided the pocket like the plague.

Latvia, technically, did give up, as did all other Soviet ruled countries. Governments-In-Exile, were created, usually in the United States or Poland. The true government of the people collapsed. The brave partizans in some pockets of Latvia, however, did not. It's thanks to German training and weaponry, (to my understanding), that the partizans did survive for that long, a record in the USSR.

[Benoit Douville]

We are on a forum with a lot of knowledgeable members and still the mentality is tough to change. The Germans are still being view as the one who commited most of the Warcrimes. I would like see Warcrimes of the Third Reich and the Soviet Union be treated equal without double standard because both regime were evil with the Gestapo and the NKVD.

I know that most of the Soviet who commited these crimes have past away but at least Russia should give excuse to the victims in Germany, Poland, Georgia, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania.

It has been estimated that about one quarter of the population of Latvia perished during the fifty plus years of Soviet domination between 1940 and 1991. A similar fate for Estonians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Armenians and many other small nationalities on the borders of the Soviet Union. The exact numbers of people killed or imprisoned and deported to Siberia in the Far East is not known as the authorities of the former Soviet Union, understandably, are not eager to make these figures available...

Regards

[Oleg Grigoryev]

I know that most of the Soviet who commited these crimes have past away but at least Russia should give excuse to the victims in Germany, Poland, Georgia, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania.

Georgia? If anything Georgia owns anybody else an apology, not that I think that it does.

It has been estimated that about one quarter of the population of Latvia perished during the fifty plus years of Soviet domination between 1940 and 1991

I am sorry what are you saying here – that Soviet terror did not stop after the Stalin’s death?

A similar fate for Estonians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Armenians and many other small nationalities on the borders of the Soviet Union. The exact numbers of people killed or imprisoned and deported to Siberia in the Far East is not known as the authorities of the former Soviet Union, understandably, are not eager to make these figures available...

You forgot Great Russians who made majority (well over 50%) of GULAG population. That said the numbers you are talking about were posted here on the number of occasions –you must’ have tried really hard to ignore them

[David Thompson]

Is there any chance in this discussion of getting: (1) a specific crime; (2) a living perpetrator, and (3) the evidence linking the perpetrator to the crime?

[hauptmannn]

(...) Perhaps Russians are ashamed of their country's past but are afraid to admit it

At least they didn't surrender to the enemy, and mounted the most efficient resistance movement during WWII. Something that the Germans never succeed to acomplish, or never dreamt of, when their time arrived, being the only people unable to try to resist its assailants. So it's better you manifest more respect for the Russians and stop making bigoted remarks. One thing it's the Stalinist apparatus and other, totally different, it's the bravery of its people.

The reason the germans could not mount such a successful offense was that

(1) Russia is a huge land mass and also has some very harsh winters. Therefore sending tanks and troops to the fronts was a time consuming and difficult task and to continue with an offensive in freezing temperatures is very difficult indeed especially with german troops ill-equiped for the task. WIth a huge land mass industries could be moved away from bomber range.

(2) Very poor russian infrastructure leading to even more transportation difficulties

(3) Russia had a huge manpower pool and can afford the shocking amount of casaulties they had during their defence an even their offensives into germany.

(4)The Germans were fighting in another country-which is far from germany

(5) German troops may not have been as commited as the russians as they were fighting in another country. Afterall Hitler thought his campaign of russia as a war of races unlike the russians who were fighting to keep their country

(6) Germans could not afford many failures as their war economoy and substantially smaller pool of resources could not take such stress.

(7) Industrial capacity in Germany was much lower than in Russia and Russia even recieved aid from USA and Britain which germany did not.

(8) Russia had huge accesses to precious resources e.g. coal. steel and oil

Thats all i can think of at the moment, if anyone has any more please feel free to add to this convo

[hauptmannn]

Now the reason why the germans could not mount such a successful defense was:

(1) Germany did not have a huge landmass to reatreat to and so could not really stretch supply lines like what the russians did.

(2) I believe German weather was less harsh than the Russian Artic counditions so Russians did not have to suffer more than the germans did during operation babarossa

(3) Germany did not have access to a large manpower pool so they could not possibly do what the russians did.

(4) Germany lacked resources such as oil

(5) Germany could not afford mistakes unlike the russians

(6) Germany was being attacked on all fronts unlike the Russians

(7) Germany did not have strong allies unlike the russians

(8) Germany did not receive aid from superpowers unlike the russians

(9) Germany had good infrastructure unlike the russians so transporting russian tanks, troops, supplies, etc was an easier task than what the german troops were doing in russia

(10) German troops although committed to defend their homeland lacked tanks and vehicles and not only tanks but tanks and vehicles with fuel

(11) Germans lost air superiority in 1943 and so air attacks on industries and units were common

(12) German army was not heavily motorised so moving supplies in germany was slower than it should be but there is also chance that because of the enemy's air superiority supplies would be attacked thinening supply lines.

Again if there is anymore please feel free to add things to this thread but other than that i hope that gave you reasons why russians mounted a very costly but successful defence

[hauptmannn]

Mr. Loughmiller~

This has been my first contact with you- I'm a little amazed at the sudden outburst of fury, but whatever turns your crank. Usually it takes at least an exchange of three or four posts before I arouse such vitriol and outright hatred in another. This is indeed a record.

Shame to lose you, old boy. You've brought much to this forum:o)

Regards and adieu,
~ Mike

Do you mean to say that you aroused such outbursts before?

[David Thompson]

hauptmann -- You asked Michael Miller: "Do you mean to say that you aroused such outbursts before?"

Anyone who posts in this section of the forum, as Michael Miller does (or myself, or many others do), is usually the recipient of some sort of verbal outburst from time to time. I speak from personal experience and observation when I say that Mr. Miller is not the only one here who has occasionally gotten some sort of diatribe in response to his posts. The subject matter of the discussions frequently involves deeply held prejudices and fixed points of view. It is certainly no cause for astonishment.

[hauptmannn]

I see... This may perhaps be one of the reasons why i barely get involved in this section because of the delicacy and prejudice amongst members. It is quite sad to see this as i think we should discuss this section in a more neutral approach

[Benoit Douville]

David,

here is a site about Soviet Union crime in Latvia. Maybe you already know this site but just in case here it is:

http://vip.latnet.lv/lpra/angliski.htm

Regards