Master race laws anniversary

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Scott Smith
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Post by Scott Smith » 24 Sep 2003 21:27

chalutzim wrote:
Scott Smith wrote:And it takes quite a Genocide theory-of-history to say that the 1935 race laws (which I do not support) led to World War.
I didn't say or imply this. It would be better IMO to say: the mindset that produced and supported German racial laws was the same that produced and supported German attack on defenseless countries, pushing one more time the rest of Europe and EUA into a slaughtertime.
Well, that is certainly the Allied view, which the Nuremberg Trials meant to quantify and "pontify." Of course, I don't agree with that. The Allies wanted peace with a strong and independent Germany about as much as a wolf wants to share his pack with some other interloper. The Nuremberg Laws didn't even make the radar screen.
:)

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chalutzim
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Post by chalutzim » 24 Sep 2003 21:38

Scott Smith wrote:(...)The Nuremberg Laws didn't even make the radar screen.
The path from the Nuremberg Laws leading to the Nuremberg Trials was a straight one. Unfortunately, for millions of people, it also was very long.

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Scott Smith
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Post by Scott Smith » 25 Sep 2003 06:21

chalutzim wrote:
Scott Smith wrote:(...)The Nuremberg Laws didn't even make the radar screen.
The path from the Nuremberg Laws leading to the Nuremberg Trials was a straight one. Unfortunately, for millions of people, it also was very long.
And you say that you are not advancng a Genocide theory-of-history?
:wink:

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chalutzim
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Post by chalutzim » 25 Sep 2003 13:11

Scott Smith wrote:And you say that you are not advancng a Genocide theory-of-history?
:wink:
Yes. I'm only concerned with what actually happened.

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Landser
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Post by Landser » 25 Sep 2003 14:44

Navy Vet wrote:

<<<...My time is too valuable to be wasted entertaining you, I'd rather spend it here learning about the history.>>>>

Maybe the following will enlighten you in helping what lead to the "Masterrace laws".It's only a historical perspective of ideas long before the Third Reich.

Here is an excerpt of the article
by Edwin Black


..... the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race was not Hitler's. The idea was created in the United States, and cultivated in Connecticut, two to three decades before Hitler came to power, the product of the American eugenics movement. Hartford and indeed the state of Connecticut played an important albeit unknown role in this country's campaign of ethnic cleansing. What's more, Connecticut was an important player in America's eugenic nexus with Nazi Germany.
Eugenics was the racist American pseudoscience determined to wipe away all human beings except those who conformed to a Nordic stereotype. The philosophy was enshrined into national policy by forced sterilization and segregation laws, as well as marriage restrictions enacted in 27 states. In 1909, Connecticut became the third state to adopt such laws. Ultimately, eugenics coercively sterilized some 60,000 Americans, barred the marriage of thousands, forcibly segregated thousands in "colonies," and persecuted untold numbers in ways we are just learning. In Connecticut, only some 600 were coercively sterilized, but hundreds of thousands more were slated for the surgery before the plan was abandoned.
Eugenics would have been so much bizarre parlor talk had it not been for massive financing by corporate philanthropies, specifically the Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Harriman railroad fortune. They were all in league with America's most respected scientists hailing from such prestigious universities as Yale, Harvard, and Princeton. These academicians faked and twisted data to serve eugenics' racist aims. Connecticut was considered both an epicenter for eugenic propaganda and a test case for ethnic cleansing.
The Carnegie Institution literally invented the American movement by establishing a laboratory complex at Cold Spring Harbor on Long Island. This complex stockpiled millions of index cards on ordinary Americans as the movement carefully plotted the removal of families, bloodlines and whole peoples. From Cold Spring Harbor, eugenics advocates agitated in the legislatures of America, as well as the nation's social service agencies and associations.
The Harriman railroad fortune paid local charities, such as the New York Bureau of Industries and Immigration, to seek out Jewish, Italian and other immigrants in New York and other crowded cities and subject them to deportation, trumped up confinement or forced sterilization.
The Rockefeller Foundation helped found and fund the German eugenics program and even funded the program that ultimately sent Josef Mengele into Auschwitz.

http://hartfordadvocate.com/gbase/News/ ... =oid:32556

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Post by David Thompson » 25 Sep 2003 15:47

Racists are pretty much the same wherever you find them.

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Post by Witch-King of Angmar » 25 Sep 2003 22:13

David Thompson wrote:Racists are pretty much the same wherever you find them.
Chalutzim and others can bring forth the argument that in the American case it was the job of a localized group(I use the term "petty local tyrants", since the local authorities sponsored by trusted people act as much as they please, without answering to a central authority).

~The Witch King of Angmar

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Post by Navy Vet » 03 Oct 2003 06:26

chalutzim wrote:Principally that rascal at the far right, on the front row.
That is Göring and I'd be interested to know of how he felt about the race laws and the final solution. I know he had signed some papers but are there words recorded (pen/audio/video) that he ever stated his true feelings.

My point is that Hitler and Himmler (and even Goebbels) made is publicly known how they felt about Aryans and Jews but I don't know of Göring ever doing this, other than approving papers with his rubber stamp/signature.

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Post by Navy Vet » 03 Oct 2003 06:32

Scott Smith wrote: There would not have been this:
Click to see disturbing image!
This URL has "civilwar" in it. I understand why you posted it and the meaning but could you credit the page you got it from and a description or caption for the photo.
Scott Smith wrote:it takes quite a theory to say that race laws led to World War.
Bosnia 1995.

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Post by Navy Vet » 03 Oct 2003 06:43

Why did Hilter/Himmler choose blonde hair and blue eyes? What was so special about this? I look in the mirror and see blonde hair and blue eyes... I don't see anything "above other races" or "special" about this... at what point did someone say blonde/blue was the best and what evidence did they have to prove their logic? It just doesn't make any sense that one day a man pops up and says that a certain color is better than another... and it makes even less sense that others would follow this ideology.

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Scott Smith
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Post by Scott Smith » 03 Oct 2003 07:17

Navy Vet wrote:
Scott Smith wrote: There would not have been this:
Click to see disturbing image!
This URL has "civilwar" in it. I understand why you posted it and the meaning but could you credit the page you got it from and a description or caption for the photo.
It is a famous photo taken from Andersonville prison after the Civil War.
Scott Smith wrote:it takes quite a theory to say that race laws led to World War.
Bosnia 1995.
What?
:)

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Scott Smith
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Post by Scott Smith » 03 Oct 2003 07:20

Navy Vet wrote:Why did Hilter/Himmler choose blonde hair and blue eyes? What was so special about this? I look in the mirror and see blonde hair and blue eyes... I don't see anything "above other races" or "special" about this... at what point did someone say blonde/blue was the best and what evidence did they have to prove their logic? It just doesn't make any sense that one day a man pops up and says that a certain color is better than another... and it makes even less sense that others would follow this ideology.
This is not unique to the Germans. Anglo-Saxons have also seen blue-eyed blondes as the leading aesthetic features of their race, as do Nordics in general. It is called ethnocentrism and Germans and Nazis didn't invent it, nor does it mean that all Nordics are blue-eyed blondes.
:)

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chalutzim
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Goering

Post by chalutzim » 03 Oct 2003 12:55

Navy Vet wrote:
chalutzim wrote:Principally that rascal at the far right, on the front row.
That is Göring and I'd be interested to know of how he felt about the race laws and the final solution. I know he had signed some papers but are there words recorded (pen/audio/video) that he ever stated his true feelings.
Navy Vet, I recommend you warmly the all time classic "Nuremberg Diary", by Gustave M. Gilbert, the prison psychologist, for insights in the minds of Thousand Years Reich's criminals. You'll find what Goering really was (ruthless, cynical, prepotent, liar, etc. In short, a evil man), besides being Scott Smith's hero. 8O

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Post by Navy Vet » 04 Oct 2003 06:29

chalutzim, I hope this doesn't sound rude but I honestly don't have time to read books, as a hobby, so I'll take your word for it and put (in my mind) Göring into the same classification as Hitler/Himmler/.... and the rest. He [Göring] had always just seemed more of a "people" person to me so I had some kind of admiration for him (as a person) but that is now far gone. I had always felt that he was merely 'following the motions' of the laws set forth to him by Hilter but now that I know he was simular minded I competely change my point of view of the man.

I would now appreciate your opinion of Karl Dönitz (as pertains to this race law topic).

Thank you Sir!

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Post by Navy Vet » 04 Oct 2003 09:35


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