Is Simon Wiesenthal a War Criminal or Criminal in general

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demonio
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Is Simon Wiesenthal a War Criminal or Criminal in general

Post by demonio » 21 Sep 2003 03:48

Hello. I have heard rumors that Simon Wiesenthal was a kapo in a camp and mistreated other Jews. I have also heard that he and his organisation have been in the habit of breaking countless international laws to pursue suspected Nazi War Criminals. I am also looking at the activities of the Wiesenthal centre.

Can anyone offer any evidences of the above statements ?
Last edited by demonio on 23 Sep 2003 06:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Galicia
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Post by Galicia » 21 Sep 2003 05:17

I know of a story where a member of Wiesenthal's organization came to speak at my school. He acturally kidnapped a member of the SS who had sought refuge in Argentina and took him home on an Isreali commercial flight. I forget the details of how he captured him as it was some years ago, but I remember hearing that to really degrade him, he made this War Criminal change into the Airline's livery and serve drinks with a Star of David on his cap. Maybe someone can tell me who this person was?

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Post by g.l.s.h » 21 Sep 2003 06:24

Galicia wrote:I know of a story where a member of Wiesenthal's organization came to speak at my school. He acturally kidnapped a member of the SS who had sought refuge in Argentina and took him home on an Isreali commercial flight. I forget the details of how he captured him as it was some years ago, but I remember hearing that to really degrade him, he made this War Criminal change into the Airline's livery and serve drinks with a Star of David on his cap. Maybe someone can tell me who this person was?


I guess no one... Unless he was talking about Eichman. Stuart's on Israeli airlines do not wear caps, and if they had, there was no "star of David" on it - its a boewing aircraft not the Wasaw ghetto. The story that man told had all what a fiction story need's.

And if Vysental had been a capo, I guess we would have heard - He was never a "culture hero" among Jews (not for good and not bad). Other capos (most of whom were not guilty of anything) were usualy uncovered by camp survivors.

demonio
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Post by demonio » 21 Sep 2003 08:26

Galicia wrote:I know of a story where a member of Wiesenthal's organization came to speak at my school. He acturally kidnapped a member of the SS who had sought refuge in Argentina and took him home on an Isreali commercial flight. I forget the details of how he captured him as it was some years ago, but I remember hearing that to really degrade him, he made this War Criminal change into the Airline's livery and serve drinks with a Star of David on his cap. Maybe someone can tell me who this person was?



Sounds like some elements of truth with a mixture of eastern european story telling. Maybe

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Post by David Thompson » 21 Sep 2003 10:21

This is a research section of the forum, not a bulletin board for rumors, "smears" and wild claims. Please give sources for these allegations, or don't post them.

demonio
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Post by demonio » 21 Sep 2003 11:07

I'm doing research.

I'm trying to establish whether there is any substance to these claims.

The claims come from a website that could be described as revisionist so i cannot post it. All im trying to do is to establish whether or not the claims hold any truths.

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Post by David Thompson » 21 Sep 2003 11:57

demonio -- You can and should give the name of the website and a synopsis of the claim and any evidence said to support it. I hope you can understand the reasoning behind the warning. I want to avoid posts which make some wild baseless claim, without giving any source. If the forum permitted this, irresponsible people could say all sorts of defamatory things about others here -- "I heard so-and-so was a diseased pedophile Nazi homo. Does anyone have more information?, etc."

demonio
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Post by demonio » 21 Sep 2003 12:52

David Thompson wrote:demonio -- You can and should give the name of the website and a synopsis of the claim and any evidence said to support it. I hope you can understand the reasoning behind the warning. I want to avoid posts which make some wild baseless claim, without giving any source. If the forum permitted this, irresponsible people could say all sorts of defamatory things about others here -- "I heard so-and-so was a diseased pedophile Nazi homo. Does anyone have more information?, etc."


Ok, i see where you are coming from David. Close the thread if you like for now and i might seek to reopen it if i come up with more credible evidence

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Post by michael mills » 21 Sep 2003 13:25

This is a research section of the forum, not a bulletin board for rumors, "smears" and wild claims. Please give sources for these allegations, or don't post them


The former Social Democrat Chancellor of Austria, the late Bruno Kreisky (also of Jewish origin), once publicly accused Wiesenthal of having collaborated with the Gestapo during the war. Wiesenthal sued him, and the case was settled out of court.

A television program on Wiesenthal that I saw fairly recently asserted that Kreisky's claim was based on material published in East Germany. The implication in the program was that the East German material was some sort of forgery. However, East Germany had a track record of storing data on the shady pasts of many West Germans and other persons, which it obtained from Soviet stocks of captured German documents, for the purpose of either blackmailing the persons concerned or else publicising it at a strategic moment, eg when the persons concerned had an important position. Accordingly, I would not dismiss Kreisky's allegations or the East German publication out of hand.

Wiesenthal has given his own account of his actions during the German occupation, according to which he worked as a prisoner in his profession of architect in the office of a German construction firm. That would certainly have given him the opportunity to be some sort of agent for the Gestapo, as alleged by Kreisky. Such activity by Jewish prisoners was not unheard of; the Gestapo had many Jewish agents who informed on their fellow Jews in order to save their own lives.

What is certain is that Wiesenthal had a rather privileged position as a prisoner of the Germans, in comparison with the great majority of his fellow Jews, and as a result was able to survive, even though he ended up in Mauthausen before the end of the war. Again, his privileged position was not unique; a small minority of Jews was spared and led a reasonably safe life because of services they supplied to their German captors.

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Post by neugierig » 22 Sep 2003 01:58

michael mills wrote:
"...However, East Germany had a track record of storing data on the shady pasts of many West Germans and other persons, which it obtained from Soviet stocks of captured German documents,...."

When the GDR (German Democratic Republic), i.e., East Germany, collapsed, outraged citizens stormed the headquarters of the Stasi, the Secret Police, with the aim to destroy all documents. But, cooler heads prevailed, the documents were saved, only to be confiscated by US authorities. The more important ones, the Rosenholz (rosewood) segment was shipped to the US and only recently released. I have no doubt that this was done to sort out embarrassing files, maybe the Wiesenthal file was one of them.

Regards
Wilf
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Post by Panzermahn » 22 Sep 2003 02:24

Herr Supreme Nazi Hunter Wiesenthal is not a war criminal. He is the world's greatest distorter of facts and equivalent sucessor to Ehrenburg.

Look at the Frank Wallus case whom he accused of being a concentration cam guard but finally justice served thru and ascertained that Frank Wallus was not even in Germany during WW2. He claimed to help the Mossad by offering clues to them in helping them abducted Adolf Eichmann in argentina but even the director of the Mossad refuted his allegation that Wiesenthal helped Mossad

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Post by David Thompson » 22 Sep 2003 02:29

neugierig -- You said, of the East German Stasi (State security agency):
"The more important ones, the Rosenholz (rosewood) segment was shipped to the US and only recently released. I have no doubt that this was done to sort out embarrassing files, maybe the Wiesenthal file was one of them."


(1) Is it your claim that the US took the files ("confiscated by US authorities") from the German federal government without their permission?

(2) What is the basis for your statement that "I have no doubt that this was done to sort out embarrassing files"?

(3) What is the basis for your speculation that "maybe the Wiesenthal file was one of them"?

(4) What are your sources for the claims you have made?

Panzermahn -- As I have already said before in this thread, and as I have just said to Neugierig, give sources for your allegations or don't post them.

neugierig
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Post by neugierig » 22 Sep 2003 02:53

David Thompson:
“(1) Is it your claim that the US took the files ("confiscated by US authorities") from the German federal government without their permission?”

Yes. There was some write-up in the newspapers. The files were just recently returned following some wrangling. For me it is just further poof that Germany, without a bona fide Peace Treaty, is not a sovereign state.
And no, I’m not going to try and find the newspaper articles.

David Thomson:
“(2) What is the basis for your statement that "I have no doubt that this was done to sort out embarrassing files"?”

You tell me why they did it. But yes, it is just a ’reasonable’ deduction, a better word for ’guess’.

David Thompson:
“3) What is the basis for your speculation that "maybe the Wiesenthal file was one of them"?”

Speculation sounds about right. :)

And yes, I understand, ‘No sources, no posting’. Auf Wiedersehn. :|

Regards
Wilf
No one is free, until we are all free.

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 22 Sep 2003 02:57

neugierig -- You said, in response to my request for sources:
"And no, I’m not going to try and find the newspaper articles."


Auf Wiedersehn.

Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 22 Sep 2003 03:04

David, here you are..the author of the article stated all his references

http://64.143.9.197/jhr/v15/v15n4p-8_Weber.html

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