Would Rommel be a War Criminal?

[Doppelkopf]

Regarding the incidents in France 1940:
According to the 7.Panzer divisional history, no SS-units were attached to the division during the campaign in the West.

From Lehmann: The Leibstandarte III (pg.295) - Rommel's order as Oberbefehlshaber HG B (29 Sept 1943), regarding the treatment of Italian soldiers:

"Any sentimental second thoughts on the part of German soldiers towards members of Badoglio guerillas wearing the uniform of our former comrades-in-arms are entirely unsuitable. Any one of them fighting against German soldiers has given up any claim on our mercy and should be treated with the harshness such rabble deserve when they turn their weapons against their friends.
This opinion must immediately become the general understanding of all the German forces.
A corresponding warning should be broadcast to the Italians on all Italian radio stations.

signed, Rommel"

This is probably as close as you can get regarding Rommel's warcrimes. Similar orders in Greece resulted in thousands of killed Italian soldiers, which had the courage to resist German forces.

regards
Doppelkopf

[John W]

From Lehmann: The Leibstandarte III (pg.295) - Rommel's order as Oberbefehlshaber HG B (29 Sept 1943), regarding the treatment of Italian soldiers

It says Italian soldiers and NOT POWs. So what's the deal? Is it a warcrime now to order my men not to show any mercy towards the enemy?

tony: I gotta take a look. I don't have much but I'll try

John

[ChristopherPerrien]

Rommel would have been convicted as a war-criminal . I am sure slave labor was use to build elements of the Altantic wall. He was commander of this defensive line/area (43-44)

I could be wrong but I seem to recall another field marshall being convicted for this same thing , use of slave labor, no other war-crime,
name???

[David Thompson]

Chris -- The responsibility for the employment of the slave laborers on the Atlantic Wall, and the conditions under which they worked, was not Rommel's but instead was the responsibility of the Nazi manpower utilization (slave labor) program under Sauckel and Organization Todt under Speer. Because Rommel had no authority over this program, I personally think that it is unlikely that he would have been put on trial for it. I can't think of any German regional military commanders who were put on trial on that theory.

One German general who did have such responsibilities (in connection with the manufacture of aircraft and rocket weapons), and who was put on trial and convicted for his participation in the program, is probably the fellow you're thinking of:

Milch, Erich (1892-25.1.1972) [Luftwaffe Generalfeldmarschall] -- armaments chief (Generalluftzeugmeister) and Inspector General of the Luftwaffe; State Secretary in the Reich Air Ministry {taken prisoner by allied forces; impending trial announced 13 Nov 1946 by American authorities (NYT 14 Nov 1946:18:3); put on trial 2 Jan 1947 by an American Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, Germany for ill-treating civilians in conquered countries, planning slave-labor programs and participation in the torture and murder of concentration camp inmates and POWs (NYT 3 Jan 1947:13:7; NYT 28 Jan 1947:17:1; NYT 7 Mar 1947:5:7; NYT 15 Mar 1947:4:2; LT 17 Dec 1946:3c; LT 3 Jan 1947:3d); convicted 16 Apr 1947 of war crimes arising out of the use of slave labor in Nazi aircraft factories (LT 17 Apr 1947:4c; sentenced 17 Apr (NYT 18 Apr 1947:4:7; NYT 7 May 1945:10:4; LT 18 Apr 1947:3d; Holo Ency 1789; History of the United Nations War Crimes Commission and the Development of the Laws of War p. 527, United Nations War Crimes Commission, London: HMSO, 1948) or 17 Jul 1947 (Encyclopedia of the Third Reich p. 591) to life imprisonment (NYT 18 Jun 1947:5:5; NYT 21 Aug 1947:7:3; NYT 21 Oct 1947:19:7; LT 21 Aug 1947:3d); sentence reduced 31 Jan 1951 by US High Commissioner for Germany John J. McCloy, on the recommendation of the Clemency Board to fifteen years' imprisonment (NYT 1 Feb 1951:1:2; LT 1 Feb 1951:6f); release from American custody at Landsberg-am-Lech prison announced 3 Jun 1954 (NYT 4 Jul 1954:3:6); died at Wuppertal-Barmen 25 Jan 1972. (Holo Ency 1789; Who's Who 209-210; Encyclopedia of the Third Reich p. 591; Snyder Ency pps. 229-30; Obits I, p. 407).}

[ChristopherPerrien]

Thank for that info David, I will restate my case alittle and leave it at that, But I hope people will agree that this is as close as I think you can get to saying or making Rommel a war-criminal. Personally I don't think he was guilty of such, but guilt or innoncence didn't seem to matter in all cases at the IMT

Yes I realize that he did not command the Todt Organization people directly, but He had alot to do with where they worked and what got built . Remember Rommell was quite the fanatic about getting the Wall built, and quickly too, because he knew what was coming and that D-Day had to be beat on the beach..

Also, I am not sure of this but the program of building "Rommel's asparagus" behind the beaches was done at a lower level than the Todt organization and was done using French civilians , Now I really can't honestly say that they were forced to work as there may have been pay involved for these french workers.

Like I said he decided where the bunkers were built and which ones got built first so in a way he was responsible, just not in command of the construction workers themselves.

Yes it was Milch I was thinking of. Let me just say that the Allies suffered some bad casualties on D-day in some places , just like the facilities that Milch had built , themselves built weapons that cause some casulties to the allies. You see I am looking at animosity caused not necessarily by using the slave labor but the effect of what that labor built as being a determinate of who got hit for war-crime charges.

Also I am not familiar with how Rommel's command was involved in fighting or suppression of French resistance forces so perhaps a case can be made against him there but I don't know anything about that part of the war.

All I am trying to say is, it not what Rommel may have actually done with would have made him a war-criminal, a much more important and random "variable" would have been the Allied commision's perception of Rommel as a war criminal, because of D-day casualties and the use of slave labor that assisted in making these casualties in a secondary sense.

[David Thompson]

For readers who may be interested in the trial of Erich Milch, the official report is available on-line beginning at:

http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/02/NMT02-T0355.htm

[Doppelkopf]

No Sturm, this means "if you resist you'll be treated like rubble" or in other words "try to resist and you'll all be killed". On a Greek island Kephalonia Italians did resist - end result every single Italian soldier that survived the fighting was either killed or drowned in the see - no survivors.

[John W]

every single Italian soldier that survived the fighting was either killed or drowned in the see - no survivors.

Are you claiming that these men were shot/killed after they had surrendered? Was their request for surrender/cease-fire refused?

John

[David Thompson]

Sturm -- The request to surrender was granted to the Italian Acqui Division, but after the division surrendered, the POWs were executed. For more on this horrible and perfidious massacre, see:

The Cefalonia Massacre (September 1943) Germany v. Italy
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17575

Kefalonia
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13921

Cephalonia/Cefalonia/Kefalonia
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=675

[Rob - wssob2]

Shouldn't the question be "Was Rommel a Traitor?" rather than "Was Rommel a War Criminal"

Remember, Rommel was forced to committ suicide because of his alledged links to the July 20 1944 Bomb Plot. He was given a offer he couldn't refuse - kill yourself, save your military reputation for posterity and more importantly, spare your family from some particuarly brutal nastiness. (At the time of Rommel's suicide Himmler wanted the entire Stauffenberg clan wiped out.)

I would say that Rommel wouldn't be considered a war criminal at all but instead probably would have ended up commanding the Bundswehr and become a high ranking NATO officer for the following reasons:

1) Respect and admiration on the part of the Allies (particuarly the British) for his military capabilites

2) His efforts to run a "clean" campaign in North Africa, his suspiciousness of other Nazi organizations such as the SS.

3) His efforts to convince the Führer and the General Staff that the war was essentially lost. His increasing disaffection for Hitler and the war effort, culminating in his alleged involvement in the Bomb Plot.

[Matt H.]

Shouldn't the question be "Was Rommel a Traitor?" rather than "Was Rommel a War Criminal"

As far as I know, he flatly refused to have any role in an assassination attempt, and as for outwardly showing disaffection towards Hitler, well, he wasn't exactly the only one.

[John W]

"Any sentimental second thoughts on the part of German soldiers towards members of Badoglio guerillas wearing the uniform of our former comrades-in-arms are entirely unsuitable. Any one of them fighting against German soldiers has given up any claim on our mercy and should be treated with the harshness such rabble deserve when they turn their weapons against their friends.

Ok, first off, this order is with regards to Badoglio's guerillas and I don't see it having anything to do with POWs Second off, why shouldn't this order exist? All I see is a German commander telling his troops to not go soft just because they were allies before but to fight back because the former comrades are out to kill them.

This is probably as close as you can get regarding Rommel's warcrimes. Similar orders in Greece resulted in thousands of killed Italian soldiers, which had the courage to resist German forces.

But were these "similar" orders issued by Rommel? Once again, as regards the Cephalonia incident, I don't see Rommel anywhere near it. And within the Cephalonia incident itself, I don't see any parts where it is specifically written down that General Antonio Gandin's men must be exterminated.

@ David Thompson: Thanks much for those links

Shouldn't the question be "Was Rommel a Traitor?" rather than "Was Rommel a War Criminal"

Remember, Rommel was forced to committ suicide because of his alledged links to the July 20 1944 Bomb Plot. He was given a offer he couldn't refuse - kill yourself, save your military reputation for posterity and more importantly, spare your family from some particuarly brutal nastiness. (At the time of Rommel's suicide Himmler wanted the entire Stauffenberg clan wiped out.)

Traitor or true patriot?

I would say that Rommel wouldn't be considered a war criminal at all but instead probably would have ended up commanding the Bundswehr and become a high ranking NATO officer for the following reasons:

1) Respect and admiration on the part of the Allies (particuarly the British) for his military capabilites

2) His efforts to run a "clean" campaign in North Africa, his suspiciousness of other Nazi organizations such as the SS.

3) His efforts to convince the Führer and the General Staff that the war was essentially lost. His increasing disaffection for Hitler and the war effort, culminating in his alleged involvement in the Bomb Plot.

Yes, I agree with you pretty much.

As far as I know, he flatly refused to have any role in an assassination attempt

The reason, IMHO, was because he was a veteran of the First War and he had strong feelings that an assasination of Hitler would lead to a second feeling of a "Stab in the back" and would plunge Germany into a civil war with the Nazi organisations (including the SS and probably the Waffen SS) on one side and the Heer at each others throats... a situation Germany simply couldn't afford because of the multitude of enemies she was facing and his fears of the threat from the East.

In Rommel's opinion Hitler should somehow be forced to abdicate and this induce the West to offer concessions and bring them to the negotiating table and thus help combat the threat from the East.

and as for outwardly showing disaffection towards Hitler, well, he wasn't exactly the only one.

Well, not quite. His close associates and his immediate family knew about his feelings. But yes, it could be considered that he wasn't one to openly state things of such nature. He was one who strictly believed in following orders and putting complete faith and trust in leadership. He expected the same from his men and as he was a man of example, he did the same too. Which is why the end of the war was such a hard time for him because he was torn between his principles. He explained this well enough to his son Manfred when he became a Luftwaffe auxillary.


John

[David Thompson]

The war crimes trial of Kurt "Panzer" Meyer now has a thread of its own, at:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=32709

[Doppelkopf]

You're quite right Sturm . This order was issued on 23 September 1943 - when the Germans had already dealt with any resistance by Badoglio units (the term for Italian troops after the surrender - hence my mistake when referred to Badoglio guerillas) in the Northern Italy.

Doppelkopf

[Donut]

No he would not be a war criminal