How [many] Jews were killed for real?

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
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Christoph Awender
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Post by Christoph Awender » 17 Oct 2003 05:40

OStuf, no problem from my side anymore as I know now what kind of person you are I won´t waste my time to quote something from you in the future.

\Christoph

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Post by David Thompson » 17 Oct 2003 05:44

Ostuf -- So the girl is trying to scam the French government out of money -- she can't be the only one. Folks trying to defraud government offices with false claims come in all shapes, sizes, races, creeds and sexual types. You could probably find any number of similar false claims rejected by the department of pensions as well. We certainly have them here in this country.

The topic is the number of Jews who died. Mme. Levy can't both have died and also be alive to fill out an application to collect for having died. If you want to start a thread on fraudulent holocaust claims, that's fine, but it seems to me that the case of Mme. Levy belongs there, and not here. Also, I can't figure out what the application of this person has to do with the number of dead.

You also said:
It means also ,that,before Miss Levy , 21.259 other jews tried to figure falsely as being deported in KZ .....
What leads you to say that every one of the 21,259 "decisions" rendered before that of Mme. Levy involved fraudulent claims?

You've been pretty good about providing facts to support your arguments, so I'll reserve comment until I see what you have to say about Eugen Kogon "and the like."
Last edited by David Thompson on 17 Oct 2003 05:54, edited 1 time in total.

Ostuf Charlemagne
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Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 17 Oct 2003 05:50

Thomson : Ok.

Christoph : When you have no arguments ,you fold ?
You just have to refute with evidence what i said ,and i will agree when i'm wrong.Thomson may assure you that i did it once ,about a fact in Holland....Timo demostrated i was wrong,so i thanked him.But when i'm not, i'm not.....

Xanthro
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Post by Xanthro » 17 Oct 2003 06:28

Ostuf Charlemagne wrote:It means also ,that,before Miss Levy , 21.259 other jews tried to figure falsely as being deported in KZ .....

No denial for the other ones ...but just the truth and demostration of the ''inflation''.

Yes Xanthro...your number is based on different factors...like this one.


Someone trying to claim vicitmization doesn't change the death toll.

You think Levy said, "I'm dead!!!!" :roll:

What's odd about the Holocaust is that with the millions of people involved there isn't more fraud. That doesn't change the basic facts, that millions of people were killed.

Your weak straw man arguements change nothing.

Xanthro

michael mills
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Post by michael mills » 17 Oct 2003 14:15

Xanthro wrote:

The current 6 million number of estimated deaths is based on a number of factors, from train movements of prisoners into camps, and them never leaving, to the documented deaths in the East.



The above sort of statement is often made to deceive the uninformed.

Certainly the deaths of some millions of Jews can be documented in various ways, sometimes directly through reports by German agencies that explicitly state numbers of Jews killed, eg the Einsatzgruppen Reports and similar reports of large-scale killing actions in occupied Soviet territory, sometimes indirectly, by extrapolation from the preserved transportation records of the number of Jews deported from various countries.

But the numbers derived from such documentary sources simply do not add up to six million. I would challenge anyone to show that they do.

code yellow
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Re: 6MILLION NUMBER INFO

Post by code yellow » 17 Oct 2003 14:21

Xanthro wrote:
code yellow wrote:There is much information developed in recent years from documented evidence previously "overlooked" in archives around the world.The 6 million number was first used in Jewish propaganda campaigns in 1916 during the Imperial war.It eventualy became a rumor,but had little creadence till it was revived and used after the second world war.Today,very few historians,including holocaust experts,the Auschwitz state museum,and the most prominent holocaust historian himself,Raul Hilberg,no longer agree with this number.Most experts on the subject have lowered the number to 1.4 million.Go on line to IHR(institute for historical reveiw),andCODOH(Bradley Smith).There,you will find info concearning this subject.


First, I'll wager money that you'll be banned with two days.

Second, everything you said is incorrect.

During WWI, it was stated that a potential holocaust effective Europes 6 million Jews could occur because of the war. This was in a fund raising letter to get money for immigration. Nobody claimed they were actually killed.

The current 6 million number of estimated deaths is based on a number of factors, from train movements of prisoners into camps, and them never leaving, to the documented deaths in the East.

You saying look up information on the two best know Holocaust denial sites shows an incredible lack of knowledge on your part. Those sites exist simply to attack the Holocaust.

The name of this forum unfortunately attacks a certain Jew Hating breed of which you appear to be a member.

Mr. Thompson has the links readily available that will quickly show that your opinion on this matter is that of a childish brain and you can then scurry back to the hole you crawled out of.

Xanthro
I am sorry,you are wrong.There is a good amount of period newspaper headlines that clearly state that 6 million jews were slaughtered,as part of a jewish propaganda campaign,that evidently is still in practice today.You should also be aware that recently period documents were discovered for a period of one month stating the release from concentration camps ofsome 184 short term prisoners.If the alleged activities going on in the camps were actualy true,why is it people outside the camps claim after the war they didn't know what was happening behind camp walls?Surley,during this period of releasing 184 prisoners,wich leads you to think how many more were released,one would gather that the news of the alleged attrocities would have been told by the ex-prisoners upon here release.Answer:nobody knew that the elleged executions were going on ,till after the war,because they simply weren't.And please don't come up with the lame excuse that these attrocities were discussed in code.If Nazi Germany had actualy implimented a policy of killing all of Europes jews,it wuold have been more than 6 million.

code yellow
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questions for Xanthro

Post by code yellow » 17 Oct 2003 14:52

The 6 million number is an absolute fabrication used to support the gass chamber execution hoax.If this number is correct,then the ariel photos of the camps presented at the Nuremberg trials would show evidence of this activity,of wich there was no trace,that would have to have been carried out daily for long periods of time in order to support that number in the amount of time the alleged executions were going on.Also,when representatives of the red cross stayed at camps that were clearly defined as execution camps by postwar historians,why is it upon their leave of the camp they made reports that they saw none of this type of activity going on,and their findings dismissed as"they didn't do a thorough job"?Also,some years after the war,Simon Wiesenthal backed up a story about an electric conveyor belt in wich you can put 500 jews on,flick a switch and electracute them,and the conveyor belt would lead the dead straight into crematory ovens,and you are then ready for the next 500.This story was made up to support the 6 million number.Not to mention other stories like handbags,lampshades,and bars of soap also presented at the nuremberg trials that anyone knows were proven to be complete lies.If they made up all those lies,what makes you so sure the 6 million number is not also a lie?

Dan
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Post by Dan » 17 Oct 2003 15:08

If you hadn't said people like Hilberg accepted the 1.4 million figure, people perhaps wouldn't have agreed with you, but you show yourself such an ignorant little fellow it will be difficult for you to be taked seriously until you at least admit you were very wrong, and show yourself willing to learn.

code yellow
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Post by code yellow » 17 Oct 2003 15:13

David Thompson wrote:code yellow -- Let's start with a question: Why do you think that the readers in this section of the forum should accept the Institute for Historical Review and Bradley Smith as trustworthy sources for anything?
Because their findings are based on wartime documents,that were said to have been either lost or destroyed and of wich there have been litteraly miles found,not the redaily acceptable postwar documention alltered to fit the view of popular majority opinion,and evidence that was clearly just taken at face value and not thoroughly examined,as it can be today with the use of scientific mehtods,as well as the cross examination of testimonies.Holocaust survivors were never cross examined until one Ernst Zundel trial in 1986,at wich point they started stumbling on their testimonies.

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Punk_Waffen
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...

Post by Punk_Waffen » 17 Oct 2003 19:16

Germans should have counted... :cry:

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R.M. Schultz
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Re: 6MILLION NUMBER INFO

Post by R.M. Schultz » 18 Oct 2003 00:21

code yellow wrote:
Xanthro wrote:
code yellow wrote:There …


First, I'll wager money that you'll be banned with two days. …


Wow! Dead on!

Tell me who will win the series and I'll bet your way!

taylorjohn
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Holocaust Denial

Post by taylorjohn » 11 Sep 2005 11:54

Reading some of the comments about the destruction of European Jewry it is really sad the some people do not want to except the holocaust as a matter of historical fact of German and European history,

The crimes against the Jews also provided one of the motives for the resistance within Germany against the Nazi-regime.

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WalterS
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Post by WalterS » 11 Sep 2005 14:25

The crimes against the Jews also provided one of the motives for the resistance within Germany against the Nazi-regime.



Could you please elaborate? What "resistance" against the Nazis was motivated by concern for what was happening to the Jews? Surely you don't think that the 20 July conspirators were so motivated?

taylorjohn
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German resistance - Persecution of the Jews

Post by taylorjohn » 11 Sep 2005 15:49

Hello Walter, the evidence I have certainly does suggest that the crimes committed against the Jews in Eastern Europe and the former USSR were strong factors in motivating some of the prominent military figures (von Treskow, von Schlabrendoff von Hardenberg, Gen Oster) behind the bomb plot to remove Hitler.

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Helly Angel
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Post by Helly Angel » 11 Sep 2005 16:14

John,

I did read that Stauffenberg hate Hitler because the info of the holocaust who said Nebe to the conspirators but I don´t think this was the main reason to the plot. I think they were more motivated by political and militar interests, the Holocaust was other of the reasons not the main.

The holocaust was the main reason to the resistence in Poland and other occuped territories, for example: Warsaw Guetto, Byalistok, Minsk guetto (the center of the resistence in occidental URSS), Treblinka, Sobibor, Auschwitz (October 7, 1944) but just between the jews.

Remember the sad case of Mr Szmul Zygielbojm who commited suicide in London because the Allied were not solidary with the jews in Europa in 1943 I think.

Best regards,


Helly

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