Atrocities against the Germans by the Soviet Union

[Birgitte Heuschkel]

A lot of the stories are inaccurate or untrue and tend to polish the Danish image, which in view of the Governments acts from April 9th 1940 to 29 August 1943 is deeply tarnished by a policy of collaboration with Nazi Germany.

There are things to proud of in Danish WWII history but the policy of the government and political establishment until 43 is not one of them.

It should never be forgotten that until 29 August 1943 the Danish government did all it could to hinder sabotage and other acts of resistance. And the greatest danger to the resistance was the Danish police not the Gestapo! When agents (Danes) from from the British SOE were parachuted into Denmark, it was the Danish police that hunted them down and murdered RottbÍl and his comrades!

What saved our honor as a nation was the acts of a few people defying not only the Germans but also the Danish King, government and all the lawful authorities.

Unfortunately I lost the URL for this quote, but anyone interested should be able to find it by doing a google search for NORDIC FAQ.

[Oswald Mosley]

What a load of old bollocks! One is not a 'traitor' if he decides to disagree with his government and join that of a supposedly 'enemy' country. It all depends on his motives. If he does so because he believes that his country's best interests are served by doing so, then, in my view he cannot be regarded as a traitor. A traitor is someone who can be bought for cash, not an idealist. It could be argued that the French Maquis and other partisan groups in other occupied countries were traitors because they disobeyed the laws of their governments (Vichy etc) by fighting German troops. But of course, as the allies won the war, these terrorists are now hailed as national heroes.

You are all SO blind!

[Dan]

So what's wrong with a man who joins a war to kill communists? I consider him a hero. Communists deserve death. They want to impose their godless, stupid, ridiculous rule on the rest of us. I'm glad we drove them into the ground. What was it, 50 million Christian dead in the last century by their filthy hands?

Good for Denmark!! Several of her sons had the courage to stand up for Christian civilization.

[Benoit Douville]

That's an interesting thread.

The propaganda of fighting the Bolsheviks war very strong in Europe and that's why a lot of volonteers of very different country join the Waffen SS and you can't blame for that as we know the result of communism today...

I know that the Americans use some Nazi concentration camp after the war to put some SS POW there and they receive bad treatment.

[lamguy]

I read Dan's post about communists deserving death. As an American I am no lover of communists and their ideas, but I find this type of thinking
no better than the Nazis. I don't think the Soviets in their day were any better than the Nazis, and being of German ancestory I of course am highly alarmed at their treatment of Germans. But I think siding with them against one's own native land is reprehensible. Denmark was known as the "Model Protectore" and was left alone for a time. But eventually their turn came too. As the war drew on there were many acts of Danish resistence. You can't invade and take over countires agains their will and expect a garden party. Also the Nazis also persecuted the Christian Churches just like the Soviets did. I had relatives leave Nazi Germany because of their persecution for being Christians.

Randy

[Dan]

If you equate Soviet persecution of Christians with German persecution of Christians, then we'll have to disagree. I see no great similarities.

[lamguy]

OK, Dan. Would you care to elaborate. My great Aunt told me you could be carted off to concentration camp if you attended a Church the Nazis had a problem with.

Randy

[Dan]

Your great Aunt lied to you. It's as simple as that.
Regards
Dan

[Birgitte Heuschkel]

I'd like to see some more, err, factual evidence or source material than the suggestion that someone's aunt said this or lied about that. Surely there must be more unquestionable material available.

[Dan]

I'd like to see some more, err, factual evidence or source material than the suggestion that someone's aunt said this or lied about that. Surely there must be more unquestionable material available.

There was a good thread posted on the old forum about this. The SS Divisions all had Padres, for instance. There was also a link to a paper written by an American clergyman about the different Nuremberg defendents and their church affiliation, the Lutherans being in the majority. Many leading officers were devout men, and a non-mainstream church affiliation perhaps hindered promotion, e.g. Heinrici, but this hardly ended up in jail time.

[lamguy]

Hello Dan,

I highly doubt that as she was not given to lying and had no reason to. She loved her country which was Germany, and was even given to the let bygones be bygones with the Nazis after the war. If I talk to some older members of my family I could find out just what town and Church. I also agree with Birgitte that we should look for some evidence that proves this,
which I am sure there is. But my Grant Aunt did suffer as all Germans did during the war and I am sure she didn't make this up out of thin air.

Randy

[Dan]

Hello Dan,

I highly doubt that as she was not given to lying and had no reason to. She loved her country which was Germany, and was even given to the let bygones be bygones with the Nazis after the war. If I talk to some older members of my family I could find out just what town and Church. I also agree with Birgitte that we should look for some evidence that proves this,
which I am sure there is. But my Grant Aunt did suffer as all Germans did during the war and I am sure she didn't make this up out of thin air.

Randy

Randy, memories fade with time. There are many things with your Aunt's story that are interesting. How did she leave Germany during the war? Which church was it? What were the penalties for attending service?

There is an understandable desire in Germans of that generation to distance themselves from German State actions, especially when in an allied environment like America. The "I was also a victim" is one of the commonest.

Thanks

[Roberto]

Roberto:

What is the source of this figure?

Well you can start with "The world at War", "The rise and fall of the third reich" etc. If you would like more ref. PM me

I'll start with Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which I have at home. In what chapter of the book do I find the cited figure about German POW deaths in Soviet captivity?

[Mensch Meyer]

Roberto:

I'll start with Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which I have at home.

Not a good choice. Shirer is not a historian and his book lacks scholarly objectivity.

[Roberto]

Roberto:

I'll start with Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which I have at home.

Not a good choice. Shirer is not a historian and his book lacks scholarly objectivity.

It seems MM didn't get my message. I've read Shirer's book and didn't find anything in there about deaths of German POWs in Soviet captitivity. Which is why I asked the poster where in Shirer's book that information could be found.