Beheadings in the Third Reich

fredric · Post by **fredric** » 06 Dec 2004 21:18

Excellent. Does this book include photographs? I will try to source it and I should have picked it up at the bookstore at the Gedenekstatte Deuscher Widerstand when I was there.

knieptang · Post by **knieptang** » 06 Dec 2004 22:17

Ploetzensee:

Source: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6142/plotzen.html

Regards / Michael

knieptang · Post by **knieptang** » 06 Dec 2004 22:26

Ploetzensee:

Source: http://gcjm.dyndns.org/khb/2004/20040409.htm

More pictures can be found by different search-engines.

Regards / Michael

knieptang · Post by **knieptang** » 06 Dec 2004 22:40

Die im Hinrichtungsschuppen aufgestellte Guillotine (unmittelbar nach dem Krieg). Da Hinrichtungsschuppen und Fallbeil im September 1943 durch einen Bombenangriff schwer beschädigt worden waren, wurden in der Nacht vom 7./8. September 1943 alle 186 zum Tode Verurteilten (darunter Karlrobert Kreiten) erhenkt.

Source: http://www.fkoester.de/kreiten/hinrichtung/seite5.html

Please, translate by yourself.

Regards / Michael

P.S. I do not like to link more pictures here, using the terms plötzensee/ploetzensee/guillotine/fallbeil etc. leads to more pictures...

fredric · Post by **fredric** » 07 Dec 2004 00:14

kneiptang,

Thanks. Picture #1 is not Plotzensee. It is Pancraz Prison in Prague.
#2 is Plotzensee and is the photo I am trying to date. It may have been taken at the time of the execution of the July 20 plotters. I am very interested in identifying the various items in the photograph besides the fallbeil.
#3 is Plotzensee, taken by a Soviet military photographer after the prison was occupied. I have been trying to identify what is in the foreground and believe their are some words in cyrillic on the items. The guillotine is missing its blade. Is that a massive blood stain on the floor?

All three photos are significant. Anyone know of others?

knieptang · Post by **knieptang** » 07 Dec 2004 01:24

Concerning the "beheading" in germany before 1945, I would like to link the movie: "Das Beil von Wandsbek", a DEFA production from 1951, starring the great actor Erwin Geschonneck.

http://www.prisma-online.de/tv/person.h ... eschonneck

As far as I know, 3 or 4 of the Guillotines used by the "Reich" were used for many more years later by the executives of the GDR, to behead the victims...?

Regards / Michael

btw - visit "Plötzensee", a place, you will never forget...

fredric · Post by **fredric** » 07 Dec 2004 01:44

I want to see Wandsbeck and to read the book.
Yes, I can confirm the guillotine was used after the War, up to 1949 in the West and later, probably in the mid-1960's, in the East. The hand axe also is reported to have returned to use, although the allegation was made by a questionable source, the self-proclaimed GDR executioner, Vopel.
Thanks for your help. I wish I could source the film!

knieptang · Post by **knieptang** » 08 Dec 2004 01:31

This very good movie you can buy at amazon, on VHS and(?) DVD:

It is one of the best films with Erwin Geschonneck, besides "Nackt unter Wölfen", another DEFA production and an remarkable movie of that time.

Geschonneck is a great actor, I have seen all the films starring Geschonneck, the man deserves a lot of respect.

Regards / Michael

fredric · Post by **fredric** » 08 Dec 2004 04:40

I will look for this film. I know of Arnold Zweig's "Das Beil von Wandsbeck" but have not been able to locate a copy of the book. Perhaps you know Zwieg's inspiration was the beheading of the "Altoona Four". It was rumored that a butcher had been hired as the executioner as a stand in for the official executioner, then was driven to suicide by the community. Historical records show a butcher in the area did commit suicide following the execution but the individual was not conclusively identified as the "pinch-hitting" headsman. Authoritative research by Oxford scholar Richard Evans indicates the probable executioner was Karl Gropler but it may have been Alwin Englehardt, both of whom were official and rival executioners. The great hand axe shown in the video cover photo was the kind of instrument used.

Thanks.
Any more information you can share will be appreciated.

knieptang · Post by **knieptang** » 08 Dec 2004 05:00

I would recomend this movie, absolutely serious stuff, and YES, the so called "Richtbeil" was used before 1945.

One of these "Nazi-Richtbeils" is to see in a museum, maybee at the DHM, I do not remember that...?

Excuse my bad english, and regards

Michael

Agadanik · Post by **Agadanik** » 08 Dec 2004 05:10

fredric wrote: I know of Arnold Zweig's "Das Beil von Wandsbeck" but have not been able to locate a copy of the book.

It's available, but not cheap... 8)
http://www.opengroup.com/labooks/359/3596220696.shtml

Agadanik · Post by **Agadanik** » 08 Dec 2004 05:25

fredric wrote: I know of Arnold Zweig's "Das Beil von Wandsbeck" but have not been able to locate a copy of the book.

What do you know - less than five bucks in English translation for a second-hand copy!

http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cf ... 52&qsort=r

knieptang · Post by **knieptang** » 08 Dec 2004 05:38

The term is "Wandsbek", not "Wandsbeck"

Just to correct that...

Michael

fredric · Post by **fredric** » 20 Dec 2004 17:45

Does anyone have information about the following individuals who served as State executions during the Reich:

Karl Groppler
Johann Baptist Reichart
Reindel
Hehr
Alois Weiss

knieptang · Post by **knieptang** » 28 Dec 2004 16:53

Johann Baptist Reichart = Johann Reichhart
Reindel = Wilhelm Reindel

fredric, using these two names, you will find some more information about both executioners, with the search-engine of your choice.

Hehr and Weiss, I was not able to find, sorry.

Regards Michael

P.S. Concerning "Karl Groppler / "Karl Gropler" you will find some more links in italian and other languages.