Beheadings in the Third Reich

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1936

Post by Paul53 » 02 Sep 2008, 23:53

Yes of course I forgot about her fate,sorry.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1937

Post by Paul53 » 03 Sep 2008, 00:43

Almost nothing is known about executions in Moabit Prison,yet, this site is referred to in a number of cases.As is Spandau,which had an own execution room,which was eventually transferred in a library.Does anyone has some info on this?


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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1938

Post by Pete26 » 03 Sep 2008, 01:02

Paul53 wrote:Yes of course I forgot about her fate,sorry.
Here is an interesting article on Mildred Harnack. Among other things, it mentions that her hair was cut just before the execution to ensure that the neck was bare. This is yet another reference to this widespread practice on guillotined victims.

http://www.channel3000.com/mildred-fish ... etail.html#

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1939

Post by Paul53 » 03 Sep 2008, 14:15

For a view of the modern Tegel prison,the largest in Germany today, Google Planet Tegel.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1940

Post by fredric » 05 Sep 2008, 06:58

Pete26 wrote:
Paul53 wrote: Fredrick,what do you mean by..the only woman executed in the Reich?A slip of the pen so to say I presume.
Paul, I think she was the only American woman executed by Nazis directly on Hitler's command.

Fredric, do you have an ISBN and full title for the Brysak book on Harnack that you mentioned? Is the book in English?
(Never mind, I already found it).
Sorry...that was a slip of the pen...I of course meant the ONLY AMERICAN WOMAN EXECUTED BY THE REICH.
The Brysac book is quite interesting and I would enjoy hearing your reactions to it. I wish she cited her sources for her descriptions of the fallbeil (e.g. "brass and wood" guillotine, reference to guillotine kits, details about the execution protocols, Stieve and Mildred's body...where did she get this information?)

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1941

Post by Paul53 » 13 Sep 2008, 17:09

Some additional information about Reichart and the practice of execution in his era.

In the Dachs biography,the use of a transportable guillotine is said to date from a very early period in the 20th century,resulting from the various Laender or counties that Germany was divided in.Apart from Reicharts duties in Bavaria, he was also hired by Saxony as the official Scharfrichter there.Saxony failed an own Fallbeil.
Reichart is reported to use several blades on his Beil,depending on the physical built of the condemned.In the course of the war,it was not possible to change the blades often enough as it was not uncommon to execute over 30 persons in one session.This resulted in the blades getting blunt,which in turn resulted in blood and tissue sticking on the blades from previous executions,as the next condemned in line was beheaded.
At least until 1924,it was customary to erect a scaffold for each individual execution.Also, the use of the "'Armesuendersglocke'',the poor sinners bell,that was operated during execution,was only discontinued 1940.
I found an entry in the Dachs biography,describing the custom to deliver the bodies of the executed to the local Anatomy University college.Also, in various Laender or counties, it was as a rule the family of the executed that were to accept the cost of the execution,which ,in the case of a Johann Dengler who was beheaded in 1924,amounted to 402,15 Reichsmark.This practice was not introduced by the Nazis,as was sometimes suggested in the past by various authors.

Some of Reicharts troubles in his professional career outside his occupation as Scharfrichter,originated from his habit to boast about him being,as he put it,''the fastest executioner in Bavaria''This seriously hampered the professional career that he tried to make in various jobs,such as trying to sell a a magazine issued by the Roman Catholic Church of Germany, titled'' Girl"s happiness and Female Love''

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1942

Post by fredric » 14 Sep 2008, 05:45

Paul53 wrote:Some additional information about Reichart and the practice of execution in his era.

In the Dachs biography,the use of a transportable guillotine is said to date from a very early period in the 20th century,resulting from the various Laender or counties that Germany was divided in.Apart from Reicharts duties in Bavaria, he was also hired by Saxony as the official Scharfrichter there.Saxony failed an own Fallbeil.
Reichart is reported to use several blades on his Beil,depending on the physical built of the condemned.In the course of the war,it was not possible to change the blades often enough as it was not uncommon to execute over 30 persons in one session.This resulted in the blades getting blunt,which in turn resulted in blood and tissue sticking on the blades from previous executions,as the next condemned in line was beheaded.
At least until 1924,it was customary to erect a scaffold for each individual execution.Also, the use of the "'Armesuendersglocke'',the poor sinners bell,that was operated during execution,was only discontinued 1940.
I found an entry in the Dachs biography,describing the custom to deliver the bodies of the executed to the local Anatomy University college.Also, in various Laender or counties, it was as a rule the family of the executed that were to accept the cost of the execution,which ,in the case of a Johann Dengler who was beheaded in 1924,amounted to 402,15 Reichsmark.This practice was not introduced by the Nazis,as was sometimes suggested in the past by various authors.

Some of Reicharts troubles in his professional career outside his occupation as Scharfrichter,originated from his habit to boast about him being,as he put it,''the fastest executioner in Bavaria''This seriously hampered the professional career that he tried to make in various jobs,such as trying to sell a a magazine issued by the Roman Catholic Church of Germany, titled'' Girl"s happiness and Female Love''
Thanks for the good information from Dachs' book. The "poor sinner's bell" dates back many years and I have in my archives a photo of the Plotzensee execution building showing the bell. This photo probably dates to the last years of the war or perhaps just after the war. I also have a document which says that Pastor Polchau told two girls living in the area that whenever "you hear a little bell ring at the prison, say a pray for the poor soul who has just died". The purpose of the bell was to cover the sound of the execution and to support the religious ceremonial protocol of German executions.
These bells, by the way, were quite large and the clapper muffelled with cloth...a dull, deadly sound.
Blades...30 cuts was the maximum from my research.
Speed...JR boasted he could perform the execution in just 3 seconds...maybe even 2! I don't believe it.
Cost...yes, we have detailed bills with the execution usually at 330RM and room/board and even postage as well as "wear and tear" on the fallbeil. Seems only fair.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1943

Post by Pete26 » 15 Sep 2008, 04:28

fredric wrote:.
The purpose of the bell was to cover the sound of the execution and to support the religious ceremonial protocol of German executions.
These bells, by the way, were quite large and the clapper muffelled with cloth...a dull, deadly sound.
Blades...30 cuts was the maximum from my research.
Speed...JR boasted he could perform the execution in just 3 seconds...maybe even 2! I don't believe it.
The tolling of the mentioned bell is mentioned in one article that describes the execution of Benita von Falkenhayn and Renate von Nazmer, who were beheaded with an axe by Karl Groppler in Plotzensee prison in 1934.

I just thought about something - if the maximum number of efficient cuts per blade was only about 30 prior to resharpening, why didn't they make two sided blades - with a slanted sharpened edge on either end, so that the blade could be merely flipped over, thus providing twice the number of of cuts. I know, perhaps a blade like that would have necessitated a redesign of the blade mounting frame, but with the introduction of the cheaper Tegel model, this could have been a major improvement, as these machines were used to perform thousands of executions in a short time. Even simple utility knives nowadays have a reversible slanted blade.

About 2 or 3 second execution: That depends on whether the time reference is from the time the victim is handed over to the executioner or from the moment the victim is thrown on the guillotine bench. If referenced from the moment the victim is seized by the executioner's assistants, the elapsed time to conclude the beheading was usually about 7 seconds if done quickly. That obviously did not included the time to remove the body from the bench or the head from the basket.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1944

Post by Paul53 » 16 Sep 2008, 09:20

Still,I have not been able to find much about the Berlin Moabit prison during the nazi era yet. Internet gives the period from 1842 till 1849 as the time of consrtuction,after the example of Pentonville prison London.If I remember correctly, someone said in a previous post,that the 1854 model Fallbeil in Ludwigsburgs museum was from Moabit.So it is likely that Moabit served as an executionsite as well.Info sofar states that it was a Gestapo prison during the war, that is, the term used was Zellengefaengnis,i.e. a prison for individuals whose cases are under investigation.

The same lack of useful info applies to Spandau prison as well.From a docu about its former occupant Rudolf Hess I learned that Spandau had an execution rooom,that was after the war converted into a library.No mention was made of a Fallbeil there, possibly the prison was served in that aspect from the outside.I tried to visit the prison in 1988,but was told it was already being torn down.
Anybody has more?

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1945

Post by andreobrecht » 17 Sep 2008, 03:17

The Ludwigsburg 1854-type fallbeil was constructed after WW2 and used for the last execution in West Germany in 1949. It is the fallbeil from the town of Rastatt in South West Germany.
The other fallbeil at Ludwigburg is a Tegel of the "first generation" (The heavy type) which came from "Lehrter Strasse" which I believe would be the Moabit prison?

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1946

Post by Paul53 » 17 Sep 2008, 11:30

Yes,as far as I know,Moabit prison was situated at the Lehrter Strasse, but that is about all I know.

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Andre is right

#1947

Post by Piotr1 » 17 Sep 2008, 22:48


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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1948

Post by fredric » 18 Sep 2008, 07:27

Paul53 wrote:Still,I have not been able to find much about the Berlin Moabit prison during the nazi era yet. Internet gives the period from 1842 till 1849 as the time of consrtuction,after the example of Pentonville prison London.If I remember correctly, someone said in a previous post,that the 1854 model Fallbeil in Ludwigsburgs museum was from Moabit.So it is likely that Moabit served as an executionsite as well.Info sofar states that it was a Gestapo prison during the war, that is, the term used was Zellengefaengnis,i.e. a prison for individuals whose cases are under investigation.

The same lack of useful info applies to Spandau prison as well.From a docu about its former occupant Rudolf Hess I learned that Spandau had an execution rooom,that was after the war converted into a library.No mention was made of a Fallbeil there, possibly the prison was served in that aspect from the outside.I tried to visit the prison in 1988,but was told it was already being torn down.
Anybody has more?
I believe Moabit served as a remand prison during the Nazi era, thus a holding point for prisoners awaiting trial or transfer to another facility such as Plotzensee (for their execution). The prison was connected by a long tunnel to the criminal court of the District of Berlin. I have not found references to executions being carried out in Moabit during the Nazi years; by that time Plotzensee, located farther out of the city, had been designated as one of the official execution sites for prisoners condemned by the People's Court. I do believe that beheading by hand axe were carried out in Moabit during the pre-war years.

Leherter Strasse was the location of another prison in Berlin where executions were conducted by guillotine after the war and some firing squad executions during the war. You can find an extensive description of Moabit Prison in the book "I Was in Hell with Niemoeller" by Leo Stein, published by Fleming H. Revell Company. Stein was imprisoned in Moabit and describes the place in some detail. He says prisoners there were being held for major crimes but that those to be executed were transferred to Plotzensee. Another book,"Four Years of Nazi Torture" by Ernst Winkler (nom de plume) also contains information on Moabit and a photo of the courtyard. You may have difficulty finding these books. The Stein book has a description of an axe execution in Plotzensee witnessed by Niemoeller.

After the war, there was a press report that a Tegel-type fallbeil from Leherter Strasse prison was dismantled, carefully oiled and packed in oiled paper, packed in crates and sent to Moabit for storage. There also is a photo of an 1854 type fallbeil surrounded by Russian soldiers on an English photo archive site which identifies the location as Moabit...and the fallbeil is definately the one from Plotzensee (identifying marks on it). This may account for the erroneous belief that Moabit was an execution site during the Nazi years.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1949

Post by fredric » 18 Sep 2008, 07:30

andreobrecht wrote:The Ludwigsburg 1854-type fallbeil was constructed after WW2 and used for the last execution in West Germany in 1949. It is the fallbeil from the town of Rastatt in South West Germany.
The other fallbeil at Ludwigburg is a Tegel of the "first generation" (The heavy type) which came from "Lehrter Strasse" which I believe would be the Moabit prison?
I think Moabit (Alte Moabit) is a different prison. I have photos of both.
The Tegel in Ludwigsberg I think is the one used for the execution of Berthold Weymueller (sp) which was carried out in Leherter Strasse prison. That fallbeil was then dismantled, packed and stored in Moabit prison. Don't know why. Then Ludwigsberg got it. I think this is correct but would appreciate any comments.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#1950

Post by Paul53 » 18 Sep 2008, 09:04

Thanks for the informative posts Fredrick.I looked the Lehrter strasse up on Wikipedia.The confusion is partly caused by the fact that there were no fewer than 3 prisons located on the Lehrter Strasse:
1...Das Militaergefaengnis[ military prison] on Lehrter Strasse 60/61
2 Haus 3 des Strafgefaengnisses Plotzensee on nr 60
3 Zellengefaengnis Moabit,nowadays only some remains of it left.

Your info could be quite correct I think.Do you have some on Spandau?

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