Beheadings in the Third Reich

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 07 Oct 2008 01:30

I somehow have the feeling that we might have hit the mark this time...

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by fredric » 07 Oct 2008 06:07

Paul53 wrote:Well, I wrote and send the letter to prof.Romeyn.I can give a word to word translation if desired, but in short, it comes down to this group being seriously studiyng this little known topic,the fact that we have no effective access to the many German files on this subject (if available) and the question whether prof. Romeyn can and will help us out.Also,as a matter of personal interest,I asked about the number of Dutch executed in German prisons during the war.I mentioned the literature that we have already cited from in this thread,Evans, Mortimer, Dachs and others.Reference was made to the Zentralstelle in Ludwigsburg, and to the lack of success we had in contacting this organisation ,especially in relation to Scharfrichter and their fate.I said that we have sofar been able to construct a reasonable correct picture of the use of the Nazi Fallbeil , but that there were a lot of questions that remained open.Thats about it


Fredric,the only time that I heared the name of a Scharfrichter being mentioned in relation to Brandenburg /Gorden ,was in a fictional book, called "" Bomber"" by Len Deighton.Don''t laugh, because it is one of the very best books I have ever read about the WW2.Wikipedia tells me it is rated as one of the ten best books written in the 20th century.I cannot judge that, but it took many years for Deighton to complete his research, and the result is in my opinion highly recommandable. Anyway, the Scharfrichter was Roettger,and the epilogue reads thus:

Gericht der Wehrmachtskommandatur, Berlin NW 40 den 23-8 43

An den Verwaltungsrat des Gefaengniswesens in Brandenburg Gorden;

Monday, the 13th of september 1943, the death sentence of the former Unteroffizier Christian Himmel, born 12th september 1922 in Ottobeuren,Bavaria,Catholic,will be carried out in your prison. Scharfrichter Rottger is assigned with the execution of the verdict.The verdict will have to be made public on the same day at 11.00 hours.
Assigned with the supervision of the execution is Feldjustizinspektor Kaiser , with Oberleutnant Dr Henze..The convict is kept in the House of Custody of the Wehrmacht,Berlin Tegel, Seidelstrasse 39.
Deighton is a distinguished writer whose work is well-researched. I have ordered the book through my library. Wilhelm F. Rottger was appointed Scharfrichter Berlin in 1943 so he probably was carrying out sentences at Brandenburg-Gorden as well as Plotzensee. He is a mysterious character. The wording corresponds with that of other directives of this type. Thanks.

htk
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by htk » 07 Oct 2008 12:35

Hi all

Has anybody any info about the type of deathpenalties issued by the Wehrmacht ?
Info, also on this site, suggest that the approved method by the Wehrmacht was death by shooting
This book suggest (and also the book from Sven Hassel from which this topic started) that the Wehrmacht also issued deathpenalties by the Fallbeil.

rgds

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 07 Oct 2008 18:16

It would depend on the type of '' crime'' that the soldier was sentenced for.High treason,defaitism,undermining the peopels will to resist,listening to foreign broadcasting,black marketeering and lots of other things were all punishable by death.As a rule, a soldier caught in any of these acts lost his military rank and was treated as a civilian.In the field,there were shootings and hangings,depending whether or not the situation allowed the perpetrator to be handed over to civilian authoreties.

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by fredric » 08 Oct 2008 05:49

Paul53 wrote:It would depend on the type of '' crime'' that the soldier was sentenced for.High treason,defaitism,undermining the peopels will to resist,listening to foreign broadcasting,black marketeering and lots of other things were all punishable by death.As a rule, a soldier caught in any of these acts lost his military rank and was treated as a civilian.In the field,there were shootings and hangings,depending whether or not the situation allowed the perpetrator to be handed over to civilian authoreties.
Seems to vary but I believe most military personnel condemned to death were executed by firing squad. Notable exceptions would be the Luftwaffe member (Shulze-Boysen) who was leader in the spy circle "Rote Kappelle" was hanged along with a group of other male members of the group after Luftwaffe military trial, but most (non-military) members were beheaded. I have read of military conscripts who declared themselves consciencous objectors being beheaded. July 20th military were of course hanged directly on Hitler's orders. Hanging was viewed as the most humiliating form of execution.

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Replica of the fallbeil

Post by Piotr1 » 09 Oct 2008 21:21


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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 14 Oct 2008 18:38

There is an interesting docu on yuotube, called Henker.....der Tod hat ein Gesicht.Recommendable in my opinion.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by htk » 25 Oct 2008 13:51

hey paul

heared something yet from this prof ?

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 26 Oct 2008 12:59

Not yet,no.I sent the letter on oct.6th,so not very long ago.But I expect some reply sooner or later.

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 19 Nov 2008 01:00

gentlemen ,I miss the conversation in this post....I have not yet heared from prof. Romeyn, but things being the way they are, I am phoning him up/Paul

htk
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by htk » 10 Dec 2008 20:19

hi paul

i was wondering what your progress is with this prof.

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Beheadings in the Third Reich: Blessed Franz Jagerstatter

Post by ghp95134 » 11 Dec 2008 01:50

Wife's love gave Austrian martyr strength, cardinal says

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

ROME (CNS) -- Blessed Franz Jagerstatter, an Austrian farmer beheaded for refusing to serve in the Nazi army, had the strength to follow his conscience because of his wife Franziska, said Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schonborn of Vienna.

<...>

Her daughter, Maria, said her earliest memory was "the whole family sitting around the table and Mother reading the letter that my father had been beheaded. Everyone cried."
Maria was 4 years old when her father was beheaded by guillotine on Aug. 9, 1943.

"We never felt he abandoned us," she said. Rather they believed he was in heaven and "he protected us."

Her father was beatified in 2007, but he "was always a saint to us. If you read his last letter, you would know he was," she said.

In the letter, written a few hours before he was executed, Blessed Jagerstatter apologized to his wife and family for the suffering they endured; he promised to watch over them always; and he talked about how Jesus must have suffered knowing that his mother was there watching him die.

Source HERE.
--Guy Power

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 18 Dec 2008 06:25

fredric wrote:
Seems to vary but I believe most military personnel condemned to death were executed by firing squad.
It is odd that four Czech soldiers, whose names are recorded in the Pankraz execution book, were actually taken to Kobylisi firing range and shot, rather than being beheaded. Their names were Bojas, Raimon, Jirasek, and Famfule). For some exceptional reasons, 9 German soldiers were actually beheaded in Pankraz prison, and are listed among the official 1075 entries in the execution book.

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 18 Dec 2008 20:36

Pete26 wrote:
fredric wrote:
Seems to vary but I believe most military personnel condemned to death were executed by firing squad.
It is odd that four Czech soldiers, whose names are recorded in the Pankraz execution book, were actually taken to Kobylisi firing range and shot, rather than being beheaded. Their names were Bojas, Raimon, Jirasek, and Famfule). For some exceptional reasons, 9 German soldiers were actually beheaded in Pankraz prison, and are listed among the official 1075 entries in the execution book.
As far as I know, military personnel condemned to die,automatically lost their military rank and were treated as civilians and were dealt with following civilian justice practice,that is, subjected to beheading.See previous postings on the Danzig guillotine.Apparently, this practice had its deviations{executions at the front,lack of time and the like}but most of the documents I have read about the executions of military personnel-in Germany or the occupied territory that is-referred to execution by beheading.In the Netherlands for example,German military prsonnel sentenced to death,were as a rule transferred to Germany for the sentence to be carried out.However,I understand that this procedure applied to those individuals that were sentenced for crimes not directly related to war activity itself.For instance, desertion was usually punished by firing squad.In this, the Germans more or less followed the international custom.

This brings in mind the reaction of SS Obergruppenfuehrer Wilhem Bittrich.Bittrich , an audacious and most capable officer and known to the German High command as someone with a sharp tongue and also as a notorious critic of the way the war was led,exclaimed after hearing of the Plotzensee executions of the july 20th plotters: ""This is the end of the German Reich and all its achievements.Why deny those people the bullet"'?
Fredric,have you read the book "" Bomber""?And if so, whar do you think of it?

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The new book from Germany :-)

Post by Piotr1 » 21 Dec 2008 07:17


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