Beheadings in the Third Reich

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 19 Feb 2009 18:34

Hello, this time I am sending a link to the picture

Warning: Graphical content:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35560711@N04/3292556405

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by David Thompson » 19 Feb 2009 18:42

Thanks, Paul53.

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 19 Feb 2009 20:18

Thanks for the PM Fredrick,I would be most interested in viewing your pictures.When I try to send a pm to you,the pc tells me you dont exist.....I overlooked something again.
Will continue shortly with Stadelheim.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 20 Feb 2009 00:35

Paul53 wrote:Thanks for the PM Fredrick,I would be most interested in viewing your pictures.When I try to send a pm to you,the pc tells me you dont exist.....I overlooked something again.
Will continue shortly with Stadelheim.
Are you spelling his name correctly? It is "Fredric", not "Fredrick".

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 20 Feb 2009 00:37

Paul53 wrote:Hello, this time I am sending a link to the picture

Warning: Graphical content:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35560711@N04/3292556405
Paul, you mentioned that these are not guillotined heads? Is that specifically mentioned in the text? Were the heads lopped of after death? Why would they keep the heads if they were of no use? One would think that they would bury or cremate them.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 20 Feb 2009 04:29

By looking at the torso with the tattoo on the chest, I can see clearly that the head was removed after death. No guillotine, axe, or sword would cause this type of a deep curved cut at the very base of the neck.

This Rudolf Spanner actually worked in this chamber of horrors?

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Opel Super 6, Fiat Ardita, and Opel Blitz

Post by Pete26 » 20 Feb 2009 04:41

Johann Reichhardt's cars looked something like this:

Image

Image

Image

The blue car is a 1937 Opel Super 6 and the one below is a 1935 Fiat Ardita. Neither of them qualifies as a sports car in my opinion. And the truck in the final picture is an Opel Blitz. On this type truck Reichhart transported his fallbeil where needed.

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by fredric » 20 Feb 2009 07:25

Peter wrote:Were Karl Gropler and Johann Reichhart the only Scharfrichter to use the hand-axe as well as the fallbeil ?

Which executioners used the hand-axe ?

Thank you
Johann Reichhart only used the fallbeil as did his teacher-uncle Xaver. Reichhart is Bavarian and the fallbeil had been the official execution instrument there since 1854, mandated by the King...hence those great old Mannhardts. The prior tool had been the richtschwert (sword).

The list of sharfrichters who used the richbeil is long. A few were Karl Groppler, the Reindels (a dynasty), Burkhardt, Julius Krautz, Frederich Hehr, Reichelt (fired for his incompetence with the axe --took two blows), and Alwin Englehardt...to name a few. Whether a sharfrichter used an axe or a fallbeil thus depended upon where he worked. Some landers mandated the axe as the official execution tool, others the fallbeil. On Dec. 28, 1936 RMJ head Gurtner ordered universal use of the fallbeil throughout the Reich. The axes were put back into their leather cases and a scramble to put old, rusty fallbeils into working condition or to rapidly build new ones began, hence those brutal but simple Tegels. The number of execution sites expanded rapidly as did the territories of the Reich. A full count of the fallbeils throughout the Reich would be an interesting number. Also interesting is that after the War ended, the Eastern sector reportedly returned to the axe for some executions along with the fallbeil and later, a simple shot to the back of the head.

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Paul53
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 20 Feb 2009 08:52

Pete26 wrote:
Paul53 wrote:Thanks for the PM Fredrick,I would be most interested in viewing your pictures.When I try to send a pm to you,the pc tells me you dont exist.....I overlooked something again.
Will continue shortly with Stadelheim.
Are you spelling his name correctly? It is "Fredric", not "Fredrick".


AHA!

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 20 Feb 2009 09:02

No,this Ardita does not look a sports car to me either,but perhaps there were more variants.Anyway,the text says it was capable of doing some 140 km/h which was pretty fast for that time. The Opel Blitz...a car painted to look like it was used by the 1 .SS-Panzerdivision Leibstandarte( the key on the splat shield).before 1943,when they changed the base color from Feldgrau to sand-yellow.

The text of Spanners horror factory only mentiones,that Spanner used those guillotined from Danzig prison,before he switched over to those from Stutthof concentration camp,(some 20 km or so from Danzig to the east.)

Spanner was an anatomist,after all.The text says that he let his students manufacture skeletons,using""available material""

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 20 Feb 2009 14:29

Paul53 wrote:No,this Ardita does not look a sports car to me either,but perhaps there were more variants."
Paul you are right, there was a sport variant that looked like this:

Image

Perhaps this is the model that Reichhart drove. The color and general lines of this particular example are eerily reminiscent of the tan Ford V8 "death car" driven by Bonnie and Clyde:

http://texashideout.tripod.com/terribles_car.jpg

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 20 Feb 2009 15:34

Reichart continued.

Reichart(in reaction to the decision to deny speeding request):

""By the contract,made up between the Reichsminister and myself,I am oblighed tp carry out executions in the Greater German empire.The places that I have to execute in,are partly a very long way from Muenich.The distances are at least 250 km,800 km at most;in one case,I had even to cover a distance of 1200 km(one way drive daly)To cover these distances, I use my own car,in which the three assistants also travel.When I get an execution contract, and a State Prosecuter from out of town,orders me to an execution, I have to travel to the execution site immediately.As a rule ,I have only one day for this trip,but frequently even less time.That is why I often cannot respect the speed limit Because I cannot in any case be late,while this would cause very serious trouble with the execution on a given time,I request permission to drive,outside villages,and on the Autobahn,with a maximum speed of 100 km/h.
In my one-way drives(at an average of 3 every week) I have often to cover drives of 10 to 14 hours,without taking any prolonged brakes.This means for me that, in wintertime,I have to drive for hours in the dark.When I have to drive with my vehicle headlights covered, as prescribed,considerable difficulties result for me.The drive itself poses considerable difficulties, physically as well as mentally.As I am bound to arrive in any case in time,and therefore in the dark to drive as fast as possible,the risk of an accident for me and my co workers is very great.
This problem may be solved thus,that in relation to the covering of the headlights of my vehicle as prescribed by the law on Air Raid Cover,I would be freed of this prescription.I depend on the fact that I am a Scharfrichter for many years,and in this profession, have driven already 350.000 km by car""

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Paul53 » 20 Feb 2009 16:15

During the time that executions took only place in the early morning hours,the Schartfrichter and his helpers had to arrive in the prison already the night before,and on grounds of secrecy, dine and spend the night there.In relation to this, Reichart wrote in june 1942 to the Reichsjustizministerium:""As by contract,the former wages for dining and sleeping are withdrawn,and instead,I am obliged to eat and sleep in the prisons.Most of the prisons keep to this arrangement,but since about a year, the Brandenburg /Gorden prison allowes us to sleep there, but we receive no food at all.In spite of several discussions with the prison board of Directors, our requests were always denied.
My travels are so long, when for example I have to go from Muenich to Brandenburg--,D-train(express train) from Muenich 7.30,Berlin 18.27 h,from Potsdamer station 19.47,arrival at Brandenburg 20.35,tram to Gorden ca.40 minutes,arrival at the prison ca.21.20 h.
Travel to Muenich or another contractual place the next day, so that I am frequently without dinner for days.This situation cannot be sustained for very long, and I ask the Minister and secretary for Justice,to instruct (the prisons)according to the contract.
The terms of the contract are held by the following prisons:Berlin/Plotzensee,Koln, Frankfurt an Main,Stuttgart.""


At this oppertunity, he pointed out: "" At my arrival in Koln on june 4th 1942,on my way to the prison, I had to overhear the following conversation among a group of civilians, standing in front of a destroyed house.In the Koln/Klingelpuetz prison,a woman was said to be executed, not by any Scharfrichter,but by the prison staff themselves,

I request information about the question whether or not executions in the future are carried out by prison authoreties themselves,while only the Scharfrichter are meant to do that ,by contract.I regard this as breaking the contract rules,and respectfully ask the Minister and secretary for Justice for a reaction""

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Peter » 20 Feb 2009 17:19

Scharfrichter - according to Wikipedia (so maybe or maybe not)

? Siller 1888-1926 (Württemberg)
Friedrich Reindel 1889-189? (Prussia)
Wilhelm Reindel 189?-1901 (Prussia)
Franz Xaver Reichhart 1894-1924 (Bavaria)
Benjamin Burckhardt -1896 (Baden)
Karl Burckhardt 1896-1935 (Baden, Württemberg and Hesse)
Lorenz Schwietz 1900-1913 (Prussia)
Richard Schwietz 1913-1915 (Prussia)
Alwin Engelhardt 1900-1906 (Prussia)
Karl Gröpler (also Carl Groepler) 1906-1936 (Prussia)
w:de:Moritz Brand “working” in 1908 (Saxonia)
Karl Müller 1908- after 1922 (Baden, since 1921 also Hesse)
Paul Späthe (also Paul Spaethe) 1913-1924 (Prussia, in 1923 also Saxony)
Hans Kordess -1918 (According to the New York Times, 25 April 1918
Konrad Widder 1922-1923 (Baden)
Joseph Kurzer 1924-1927 (Prussia)
Johann Baptist Reichhart 1924-1948/50
Fritz Reichelt 1927-1933 (Prussia)
Alwin Engelhardt 1933-1936 (Prussia) (the same Alwin Engelhardt who was in office from 1900 to 1906)
Friedrich Hehr 1935-1949 (Baden, Württemberg and Hesse)
Ernst Reindel 1936-1943 (sources vary about his start)
Gottlob Bordt 1940–1945
Karl Henschke 1943–1945
August Köster 1943–1945
Alois Weiß 1943–1945
Willi Röttger 1943–1945
Johann Mühl 1943–1945
Fritz Witzka 1943–1945
Alfred Roselieb 1944–945
Clemens D. after 1945, “working” in 1947
Horst S. after 1945, “working” in 1949
Heinz M. 1946–
Gustav Völpel 1946–1948 (it is not sure his if allegations of having been an executioner are true)
? Kleine 1940s (executed in 1946)
? Köster 1940s
? Ulitzke 1940s
? Korzer (also Kurzer) ? (Berlin)
Hermann Lorenz 1968–1981 (former East Germany)

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 20 Feb 2009 18:22

Paul53 wrote: Because I cannot in any case be late,while this would cause very serious trouble with the execution on a given time,I request permission to drive,outside villages,and on the Autobahn,with a maximum speed of 100 km/h.
Paul, any idea what the actual speed limit was on open roads in Germany at that time? I would guess maybe 80 km/h (50 MPH). Given the circumstances described, I do not see Reichhart's request as unreasonable, especially that he limited his proposed maximum speed to 100 km/h (62 MPH).

I wonder, how exactly did they catch speeders back then? They obviously had no radar guns in their police cars.

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