Beheadings in the Third Reich

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Pete26
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Gedenkstatte Munchner Platz memorial in Dresden

Post by Pete26 » 08 Nov 2011 05:09

Image

The guillotine stood on the stone slab. More than 1300 people died here. About two thirds were prisoners from the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, as the death sentences of special courts in Prague and Brno were carried out here before the Pankrac fallbeil was put into operation in April of 1943.

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Munchner Platz death cells

Post by Pete26 » 09 Nov 2011 03:32

http://www.stsg.de/cms/node/865

In these cells the condemned prisoners spent their last hours of life.

history1
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Re: Golda Bancic execution

Post by history1 » 09 Nov 2011 13:05

Pete26 wrote:According to this wikipedia article, she was beheaded with an axe in Stuttgart in 1944. [...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Bancic
[...]
Wikipedia is not a proofed source if you can see. Someone wrote that she was beheaded with an axe, and gave as source the USHMM - file. But they are only claiming that she was exuted by beheading. No word about the use of an axe.

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Re: Golda Bancic execution

Post by Pete26 » 10 Nov 2011 05:42

history1 wrote:
Pete26 wrote:According to this wikipedia article, she was beheaded with an axe in Stuttgart in 1944. [...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Bancic
[...]
Wikipedia is not a proofed source if you can see. Someone wrote that she was beheaded with an axe, and gave as source the USHMM - file. But they are only claiming that she was exuted by beheading. No word about the use of an axe.
I thought it was unusual for someone to be beheaded by an axe in Germany in 1944. Does anybody have any more information on this particular execution? Is the wikipedia article claim false or not?

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Re: Golda Bancic execution

Post by fredric » 10 Nov 2011 07:25

Pete26 wrote:
history1 wrote:
Pete26 wrote:According to this wikipedia article, she was beheaded with an axe in Stuttgart in 1944. [...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Bancic
[...]
Wikipedia is not a proofed source if you can see. Someone wrote that she was beheaded with an axe, and gave as source the USHMM - file. But they are only claiming that she was exuted by beheading. No word about the use of an axe.
I thought it was unusual for someone to be beheaded by an axe in Germany in 1944. Does anybody have any more information on this particular execution? Is the wikipedia article claim false or not?
In 1944 Stuttgart had a fallbeil mentioned by Evans as being securely mounted to the execution room floor. The fallbeil, as we know, had been the mandated standard execution tool for over almost a decade by 1944. A frequent error is misinterpreting "fallbeil" to mean a falling, hand-held axe. I doubt very much if this person was beheaded with a richtbeil.

history1
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Re: Golda Bancic execution

Post by history1 » 10 Nov 2011 10:42

Pete26 wrote:[...] Is the wikipedia article claim false or not?
I didn´t knew that my English is so bad, Pete26. As I tried to explain. The person who wrote the german wikipedia article did a bad translation of the english documents of USHMM what he/she mention as annotation #1.
They US source states that
On May 10, 1944, her 32nd birthday, Olga was beheaded.
It is wrong to translate it as "Olga wurde mit einer Axt enthauptet". Beheading doesn´t mean, at least to me, that one was beheaded with an axe but that the head was severed from the body.
Conclusion: Yes, the wikipedia article is a false claim in this matter. It´s source (the english website) don´t mention the use of an axe so it is very unprofessional to bring the axe up.

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Dresden memorial

Post by Pete26 » 10 Nov 2011 14:09

What is the purpose of the tapered stone structure next to the fallbeil slab in the photo on top of this page? It almost looks like a statue pedestal to me. Was something on top of it before?

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Re: Golda Bancic execution

Post by Pete26 » 10 Nov 2011 14:12

history1 wrote:
Pete26 wrote:[...] Is the wikipedia article claim false or not?
I didn´t knew that my English is so bad, Pete26. As I tried to explain. The person who wrote the german wikipedia article did a bad translation of the english documents of USHMM what he/she mention as annotation #1.
They US source states that
On May 10, 1944, her 32nd birthday, Olga was beheaded.
It is wrong to translate it as "Olga wurde mit einer Axt enthauptet". Beheading doesn´t mean, at least to me, that one was beheaded with an axe but that the head was severed from the body.
Conclusion: Yes, the wikipedia article is a false claim in this matter. It´s source (the english website) don´t mention the use of an axe so it is very unprofessional to bring the axe up.
It's not about your English, history 1. You base your assertion on the fact that the USHMM article has been translated incorrectly, which is valid. However, I was merely trying to find out if there is a written execution record for this person as underlying documentation for her execution by an axe. For these kinds of claims, finding a historical record is often the only way to resolve them. (Reference the ongoing discrepancy of Goerdeler execution method).

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Re: Reindel book axe execution photos

Post by tomh » 11 Nov 2011 00:33

Hello People, I have been following this very interesting thread for quite some time now and now I finally decided to join the forum. This is my first post.
fredric wrote: Mr. Blazek says the photos are the only known images of an axe execution and that they were given to (?) or discovered (?) in the Braunschweig Museum archives in 1924. They show the execution of 27 year old Polish worker Anton Giepsz on 17 April 1885 in the Braunschweig Prison yard as the sentence is read and at the moment the axe falls in a blur.
If this goes off topic, please forgive me that, but I believe some of you might be iterested to know that these two are actually not the only known images of an axe execution.
This image shows the execution of Gustav Adolf Eriksson Hjert in Södermanland, Sweden the 18th of May 1876.
hjert.jpg
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Avr%C3 ... %A4rad.jpg

Hjert and his accomplice, Konrad Petterson Lundqvist Tector, were both beheaded by axe simultaneously at different locations. These two were the last public executions in Sweden.
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by andreobrecht » 12 Nov 2011 02:31

The photo below is of a fantasy copy of a German fallbeil. It was made for a TV show and is full scale constructed of stainless steel and mahogany. It is absolutely lethal. The owner wants to sell it so I thought this would be a good place to display it. I am personally not fond of the design but it could make a decent prop for an exhibit/museum if historical accuracy isn't a must. Address inquiries to: [email protected]

Image

Moderator: If this post is too far off topic feel free to delete it.

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Re: Reindel book axe execution photos

Post by Pete26 » 12 Nov 2011 04:55

tomh wrote: Hjert and his accomplice, Konrad Petterson Lundqvist Tector, were both beheaded by axe simultaneously at different locations. These two were the last public executions in Sweden.
Thanks for the interesting photo, tomh. The name of Hjert's executioner was Hjort. The two criminals (Hjert and Tector) were executed for a double murder when they attempted to rob a stage coach and they attacked the wrong one, killing the driver and one of the passenger in the robbery attempt.

I assume that the man standing over the body is the executioner, and the severed head is clearly visible.

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Execution of Hermann Oste

Post by Pete26 » 13 Nov 2011 04:03

Hermann Oste, a convicted murderer, was guillotined by Karl Groppler in Kleve on 3 September 1910. The execution started at 6 AM and was over in two minutes. The guillotine was brought from the courthouse in Hannover.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de ... wp=GC2F4J6

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Last execution by sword in Munich

Post by Pete26 » 14 Nov 2011 06:21

The last execution by a sword in Munich took place on 12 May 1854. A man was beheaded for murder. The executioner was Matthias Schellerer. He was an experienced executioner and this was his 73rd execution. But something went very wrong that day. According to the chronicle records, it took 7 swings of the sword to separate the head from the body. Many got sick by the bloody spectacle and the executioner had to be protected form an angry mob. After this botched execution, the city council decided that all future executions be done with a fallbeil. Several months later, an 1854 model was introduced, made by the firm Mannhardt.

http://www.ganz-muenchen.de/tourist/sta ... hwert.html

The last public execution took place in Munich on 9 November 1861. A servant was beheaded for murder of a farmer.

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Re: Golda Bancic execution

Post by Pete26 » 15 Nov 2011 03:21

fredric wrote: In 1944 Stuttgart had a fallbeil mentioned by Evans as being securely mounted to the execution room floor. The fallbeil, as we know, had been the mandated standard execution tool for over almost a decade by 1944. A frequent error is misinterpreting "fallbeil" to mean a falling, hand-held axe. I doubt very much if this person was beheaded with a richtbeil.
I did some searching and according to one source the last axe execution (Handbeilenthauptung)in the German Reich took place in November 1942 in the Dreibergen-Butzow prison. A decree was issued by the Ministry of Justice in 1936, designating a fallbeil as the only legal beheading instrument. This decree, however, was not enforced in all parts of the Reich until 1938. In the meantime, transitional axe executions were taking place in certain locations.

If the above information is correct, then this means that Golda Bancic was beheaded by a guillotine, not an axe, as her execution took place in Stuttgart in 1944.

Pete26
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 15 Nov 2011 03:28

andreobrecht wrote:The photo below is of a fantasy copy of a German fallbeil. It was made for a TV show and is full scale constructed of stainless steel and mahogany. It is absolutely lethal. The owner wants to sell it so I thought this would be a good place to display it. I am personally not fond of the design but it could make a decent prop for an exhibit/museum if historical accuracy isn't a must. Address inquiries to: [email protected]
I think this post belongs in the "Full size fully operational guillotines for sale" section of this forum. :D

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