Beheadings in the Third Reich

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3931

Post by fredric » 07 Jun 2012, 07:43

Jacqui wrote:Somehow, I have a hard time imagining Woods being proficient in German.
Me too. My guess is that he came across as a semi-literate tough guy. Perhaps you know that when asked by the press how he would like to execute Göring, Woods said "I will drop him like a polled ox!" His hanging technique was harshly criticized by the British press who of course wanted their master hangman, Pierrepont, to hang the Nazi hierarchy.
I am sure Woods spoke no German.
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 19 Jun 2012, 14:24, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Göring - not Goering !!!

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3932

Post by Ossian » 07 Jun 2012, 14:30

fredric wrote:
Jacqui wrote:
Great information Jacqui. I will study the exchange you say took place between JR and Woods. I did not think they worked on the same gallows at the same time. Woods would have had the prescribed knot tied well in advance of the execution however but it might not have been working properly (as in smoothly sliding). Woods, from my research, was a rough Texas type, hard drinking hard living guy who had assisted in a few hangings in Texas using the traditional "cowboy" hangman's knot, something Reichhart probably would not want to use.
Woods was not from Texas. He was born on June 5, 1911 in Wichita, Kansas. Prior to his induction into the Army he spent the last ten years of his adult life in Greenwood County, Kansas working in construction. He did not learn how to hang people in Texas. Texas stopped hanging people in 1923, when Woods was only twelve (and living in Wichita with his mother). Thus far, I have seen no evidence to suggest that Woods was a hangman in civilian life (he lived in a state that did not have the death penalty until after he left it). What little Woods knew about hanging was apparently learned on the job. He may have witnessed a hanging by Thomas Pierrepoint in Normandy, and possibly several at Shepton Mallet but there is not much reason to believe he actually participated in any of them.
Have you ever seen or found and reference to films of executions conducted after the War by Hehr?
I don't think the British Army ever filmed or photographed executions in Germany (or for that matter anywhere else). The British traditionally preferred to conduct executions in secret, with as little documentary records as possible.


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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3933

Post by Paul53 » 08 Jun 2012, 01:00

One of the very last beheadings carried out by Engelhardt could have been in Weimar in 1935.Siegel did not let Friedlein waite long regarding his request.Already a few days later he mentioned Reichart That was the beginning of the Reichart era in Bavaria.
Alwin Engelhardt who came in the meantime in serious financial trouble, turned to the highest functionaries in the Third Reich but by so doing lost all his credit with the authorities.An investigation commitee established on april 28th 1936, that Engelhardt was a very capable executioner,but that his personal files gave a very bad impression.His immediate retirement was recommended.To the officials, his retirement seemed appropiate as he has reached his 60th birthday.Alwin Engelhardt was retired with a yearly retirement fee of 600 Reichsmark.Engelhardt protested and threathened the Reichsministerium on december 5th 1937 ,to exibit his tools for money.The Gestapo was subsequently informed, and seized his instruments.

December 11th 1938, Engelhardt turned to the highest authorities ,this time to Reichsminister dr .Arthur Seyss-Inquardt(1892-1946)Hitlers Underking in the Netherlands from 1940 till 1945.

Günther Schneider who as a child knew Engelhardt personally in Schmölln remembers the Richtbeil that Engelhardt exibited in the restaurant "Germania" in Schmölln and how Engelhardt made some extra income by exposing home-made extra"s.Engelhardt was said to have been very talkative about his work under the influence of alcohol in spite of the order to keep things secret. October 10th 1940, Engelhardt died of heart failure.

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Van der Lubbe

#3934

Post by Grootendorst » 08 Jun 2012, 13:22

Some years ago there was a program about the Reichstag-fire. Ofcourse there was the question "who dunnit?" And ofcourse there was the statement that Van der Lubbe was a puppet in the arms of the nazi's. There were some clues, a testemony at the Nuremberg Trials and the last words of Van der Lubbe: "Wo sind die anderen?" when facing the scaffold and the Fallbeil.
His brother was allowed to see the body of his brother before the burrial. The head of Marinus was sewed back on the trunk but there was an big hole at the place the blade entered the neck.
At the end of the program there was a view in the depot of the Deutsch Historic Museum. It shows the fallbeil wich, so it was told, beheaded Van der Lubbe.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3935

Post by Paul53 » 08 Jun 2012, 16:45

I read somewhere that the Fallbeil in the Deutsche Historische Museum was the one used in Brandenburg-Görden.Is this correct?

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3936

Post by Der Vollstrecker » 09 Jun 2012, 05:12

Yes, that's true, but this Fallbeil is not currently exhibited at the German Historical Museum in Berlin (when I was there 2011 to visit, the museum staff had no idea and no information in this regard). I know now, that the guillotine (Tegel production in about 1933, to the penitentiary in Brandenburg-Goerden) is a property of the museum and since September 1989 as a loan to the museum in Ludwigsburg to see. Before 1989, the device was stored in a disassembled state in the basement of the prison of Moabit. Now in the current Memorial Brandenburg-Goerden another guillotine (production Mannhardt) is installed. This one was used until 1968 in East Germany, first in Dresden, then in Leipzig for capital punishment.
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3937

Post by vinnievega » 09 Jun 2012, 17:54

RE: Johann Reichhart
ALbert Pierrepoint

I remember reading somewhere that Reichhart's wife left him and one his sons committed suicide in 1950 because of the stigma attached to his profession of executioner. May have been on Wikipedia so perhaps it should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm sure that somebody on this forum has accurate info on this.

Also there is an excellent British movie about Albert Pierrepoint titled "Pierrepoint: The Last Hangman." It delves into the psychological effects of working as an executioner. According to the film, the job began to take a toll on Pireerpoint after the wholesale executions of Nazi war criminals and after he hanged an actual acquaintance who had previously been a customer at his bar.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3938

Post by fredric » 09 Jun 2012, 21:57

vinnievega wrote:RE: Johann Reichhart
ALbert Pierrepoint

I remember reading somewhere that Reichhart's wife left him and one his sons committed suicide in 1950 because of the stigma attached to his profession of executioner. May have been on Wikipedia so perhaps it should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm sure that somebody on this forum has accurate info on this.

Also there is an excellent British movie about Albert Pierrepoint titled "Pierrepoint: The Last Hangman." It delves into the psychological effects of working as an executioner. According to the film, the job began to take a toll on Pireerpoint after the wholesale executions of Nazi war criminals and after he hanged an actual acquaintance who had previously been a customer at his bar.
Reichhart's wife did leave him (see Dachs' book, others) reportedly over the stigma of his profession. His son Hans did commit suicide in 1950 (see Dachs, others as well).

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3939

Post by fredric » 10 Jun 2012, 05:00

Der Vollstrecker wrote:Yes, that's true, but this Fallbeil is not currently exhibited at the German Historical Museum in Berlin (when I was there 2011 to visit, the museum staff had no idea and no information in this regard). I know now, that the guillotine (Tegel production in about 1933, to the penitentiary in Brandenburg-Goerden) is a property of the museum and since September 1989 as a loan to the museum in Ludwigsburg to see. Before 1989, the device was stored in a disassembled state in the basement of the prison of Moabit. Now in the current Memorial Brandenburg-Goerden another guillotine (production Mannhardt) is installed. This one was used until 1968 in East Germany, first in Dresden, then in Leipzig for capital punishment.
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What documentation/proof that the Mannhardt-style fallbeil now exhibited at the Brandenburg Memorial originally came from Dresden and later Leipzig? Source? Thanks.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3940

Post by Der Vollstrecker » 10 Jun 2012, 06:31

Here is a one source: http://www.stg-brandenburg.de/museen_ku ... telle.html
Under: "Nationale Mahn- und Gedenkstätte".
The year 1964 I think not entirely accurate, since the beheadings took place in East Germany until the 1968th. From then on, the Fallbeil was taken out of service because it no longer functioned properly. And that this is a one modified guillotine made by Mannhardt's manufacture, can not be overlooked. A move of the execution station - Hinrichtungsstätte from Dresden to Leipzig at 1960 (together with the one previously operated guillotine) is a known cause.
Last edited by Der Vollstrecker on 10 Jun 2012, 18:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3941

Post by Paul53 » 10 Jun 2012, 09:27

Exellent info, thanks Vollstrecker.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3942

Post by Deliverance » 10 Jun 2012, 13:00

"Pierrepoint: The Last Hangman" isn't bad but it's fairly inaccurate on several points. To start with, he wasn't the last hangman in the UK (that distinction falls on two men, Harry Allen and Robert Stewart) and there is also some evidence to suggest his resignation had more to do with an unpaid fee than anything else. It's also noteworthy that, as somebody who constantly refers to his family and craft in such reverential tones, he fails to mention in the autobiography his father's dismissal as executioner for a drunken brawl with another hangman and his uncle's well known habit of touting for business with the Prison Comissioners.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3943

Post by fredric » 11 Jun 2012, 07:00

Der Vollstrecker wrote:Here is a one source: http://www.stg-brandenburg.de/museen_ku ... telle.html
Under: "Nationale Mahn- und Gedenkstätte".
The year 1964 I think not entirely accurate, since the beheadings took place in East Germany until the 1968th. From then on, the Fallbeil was taken out of service because it no longer functioned properly. And that this is a one modified guillotine made by Mannhardt's manufacture, can not be overlooked. A move of the execution station - Hinrichtungsstätte from Dresden to Leipzig at 1960 (together with the one previously operated guillotine) is a known cause.
Thanks. You have provided some interesting information. But please give me some help because my German is not good. Does this article say the Mannhardt fallbeil exhibited at the Brandenburg Memorial was made for Dresden and give a date when it arrived? Or does it say it was in other locations prior to being sent to Dresden? When it was in Dresden, was it being used by the Nazis or the East German authorities? thanks.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3944

Post by Der Vollstrecker » 11 Jun 2012, 21:25

What I know (the source: T. Waltenbacher "Zentrale Hinrichtungsstätten. Der Vollzug der Todesstrafe von 1937 - 1945. Scharfrichter im Dritten Reich"):

Brandenburg-Görden:
After the last executions, was the guillotine (photo left above) on 20/04/1945 by officials of the prison loaded to a truck and sunk in Plauer See (lake). After the war ended, it was soon recovered and placed in the 100 km south of Berlin, the correctional facility to Luckau, where it was re-erected in a usable form.

Dresden:
The execution station was equipped with a older guillotine of the firm "J. Mannhardt & Co". Shortly before the war ended, the unit was lowered into a nearby lake, then later recovered and put back on 1952 in the same place into service. That was the central place of execution of the German Democratic Republic.
Note: Until the end of the war were equipped a 6 of total 22 of execution sites each with a modified Mannhardt-Fallbeil (Between 1850 to 1860 produced a total of 6):
Breslau
Wolfenbüttel
Berlin-Plötzensee
München-Stadelheim
Bruchsal
Dresden (Today is the machine at Memorial Brandenburg-Görden to see)

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#3945

Post by Paul53 » 12 Jun 2012, 21:57

Carl Gröpler 1868-1946.

(This is an extremely long chapter)

The leading executioner in Germany at the time of the national-socialist coup was the Magdeburger Carl Gröpler.He was from 1906 till 1937 prussian executioner and carried out executions in Prussia, Mecklenburg, Oldenburg, Braunschweig and the Hanse- cities.Various statements testified of the fact that everyone who met him would held a lasting memory of him. People met him with awe.And every time people would ask themselves what would have brought him to his profession.

Carl Gröpler was available to the State Attorne ys with his Handbeil, aka Richtbeil, for a small monthly fee.According to local custom, he also operated Fallbeile.Once, Gröpler was reported to have said to a Justiz Wachtmeister(guard):" Well, you have had a terrible night in the cell..or do you not believe in God? I do!! I would not have been able to do this if I didnt.This executioner, the "Red Judge" as he was known to Theodor Lessing in 1925, was known as a broad-shouldered powerful man with a reddish moustache and beard and a military short haircut.Franz Friedrich Carl Gröpler, as was his full name , saw the light of day on february 22th 1868 in Magdeburg as the legitimate mutual child of railroad worker/civil servant Heinrich Gröpler and his wife, Auguste Gröpler, nee Anton.

As an adult, Gröpler had a bull-like head and a "plied bull"s neck" As executioner he wore a high-buttoned jacket and his dark suit stretched around his broad shoulders.

Carl Gröpler had been a horse butcherer before his appointment as executioner. His son George was born in 1895, and Gröpler in 1897 founded the steam laundry "Aegir" in the Hohepfortestraße 8 in Magderburg. Untill 1945, Gröpler lived in the Straßburgerstraße, first in nr. 9, later in nr 8.

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