Beheadings in the Third Reich

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Pete26
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4861

Post by Pete26 » 14 Oct 2013, 02:42

The clockwork mechanism displayed at the Wolfenbuttel memorial site is from the roof of the execution building, which has a small clock tower on top. I have not seen the photo of the fallbeil partially disassembled if it is not one of the photos already posted on this site. Why would Wolfenbuttel memorial personnel be reluctant to display the fallbeil, when the one displayed at Brandenburg actually decapitated many times more people? Perhaps some local descendants of those executed there objected. As it is, the Pankrac and Brandenburg sites appear to be the only original authentic execution sites in the Third Reich that display their fallbeils, the one at Pankrac prison being the only actual one used at that site(minus the improper bench, winch, release lever, and head bucket substitutions).

The presence of an authentic fallbeil at former execution sites greatly increases the awareness in visitors of the true horrors that happened in these places when they think about the last seconds of life of those unfortunates dragged to the fallbeil some 70 years ago.



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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4863

Post by fredric » 14 Oct 2013, 05:15

Pete26 wrote:The clockwork mechanism displayed at the Wolfenbuttel memorial site is from the roof of the execution building, which has a small clock tower on top. I have not seen the photo of the fallbeil partially disassembled if it is not one of the photos already posted on this site. Why would Wolfenbuttel memorial personnel be reluctant to display the fallbeil, when the one displayed at Brandenburg actually decapitated many times more people? Perhaps some local descendants of those executed there objected. As it is, the Pankrac and Brandenburg sites appear to be the only original authentic execution sites in the Third Reich that display their fallbeils, the one at Pankrac prison being the only actual one used at that site(minus the improper bench, winch, release lever, and head bucket substitutions).

The presence of an authentic fallbeil at former execution sites greatly increases the awareness in visitors of the true horrors that happened in these places when they think about the last seconds of life of those unfortunates dragged to the fallbeil some 70 years ago.
The information from the Wolfenbuttel Memorial's homepage (must be translated) contains what is possibly a new, revealing statement that it is felt (by Wolfenbuttel) that "reconstructing" (might also translate as "re-assembling") and exhibiting the fallbeil in the Memorial would put the visitor's focus on the executioner and his equipment and not on the victims. Their chosen focus is on the victims. Some years ago they said the guillotine was not exhibited out of respect for the feelings of the victims' relatives. I think it is interesting that Wolfenbuttel first planned to only allow relatives of victims onto the site but protests from people in many countries and historians got them to change.

Today the Memorial is open by appointment to groups. It has been struggling over money to keep the place open (news article on this from 2008 I believe). They are at odds with local historians too. Putting the real fallbeil on display would bring in thousands of people and would dramatize the frightening reality of the executions.

BTW, the text of the article by the Wolfenbuttel pastor describing an execution is linked to the Memorial's site.

I found little information on scharfrichters and the fallbeil available at the Berlin-Plotzensee Memorial Center. Piecing the mystery
together takes a huge amount of time and research.

Pete26
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4864

Post by Pete26 » 14 Oct 2013, 14:03

I disagree with the assessment that presence of the fallbeil in its original execution room would somehow shift all the attention from the victims to the execution instrument itself. Can you imagine visiting a medieval castle torture chamber that has been cleared of all instruments and has nothing but freshly painted white walls? Would that give visitors a good impression of what happened there in the past? And this is what the Woflenbuttel execution room looks like today. In addition to removing the fallbeil, they even removed the sink and tiles on the back wall and walled up the two doors that were originally there. The black curtain was also removed. This gives the former execution room an inert look and in my opinion completely fails to convey the true image of what happened there many years ago.

In Plotzensee they did not remove the hanging beam with its hooks. The death by hanging in that chamber was in my opinion much more agonizing than being decapitated by the guillotine. Yet, somehow these hooks do not seem to convey the same horror in visitors as the original guillotine installed in the room would. But if someone thinks that hanging people from meat hooks is somehow less barbaric than decapitating them with a guillotine, that sentiment may not be shared with everyone.

About the Wolfenbuttel prison memorial: the original execution building was scheduled for demolition sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s, but some groups intervened and saved it. I have previously posted the article linked below, in which the prison chaplain Hünecke, who witnessed the execution at Wolfenbuttel specifically mentions that once the guillotine blade fell, the blood started flowing from the severed neck with a loud hiss. He also refers to a "leather bag in which the head fell" which undoubtedly means that the fallbeil was equipped with a cloth head bucket, which as we know is the original equipment on Mannhardt fallbeils. This helps to reinforce the assertion that the fallbeil was indeed modified by the British after the war and equipped with a metal head bucket. At the same time, they removed the bascule and used a piece of wood to fill in the gap in the bench. However, given the short execution times, it is obvious that if the bascule was there and was used during the Third Reich era, then they did not strap the condemned to it, as this would take a lot more time. From the execution report of Erna Wazinski, it is stated that it took only a few seconds to carry out the execution from the time the condemned was turned over to the executioner. This means that strapping to the bascule could not possibly be done in that small amount of time. They most likely used the the bascule just like on French guillotines that do not have leather straps. Perhaps the leather straps on the bascule were removed on the Wolfenbuttel fallbeil while being used during the Nazi years. Pastor Hünecke also refers to "a side mounted button that was pressed to release the blade" which is obviously incorrect or a translation problem. The blade release mechanism was that of a typical Mannhardt - a sturdy long metal lever that had to be pulled horizontally toward the bench. Another important point in the article is that the curtain was closed after the blade fell and the executioner stepped in front of the closed curtain and reported to the state representative that "the verdict has been enforced". Therefore, body removal from the fallbeil bench and fallbeil cleaning was done out of sight, with the black curtain closed. The curtain was opened again when the next condemned was turned over to the executioner. These witness accounts are invaluable, as there is so much conflicting and incorrect information out there, in some cases obviously intended to dramatize the execution process and make it appear even more ghoulish. A good example is the Pankrac fallbeil hook story about the executioner retrieving the head from the metal bucket with a "hook" after each execution and showing it to the state representative sitting in the adjacent room. Just imagine what would it look like if this was really the case. The blood would drip all over the place and the head would possibly fall off and roll somewhere into a corner.


http://www.vernetztes-gedaechtnis.de/pd ... eckevg.pdf

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... S:official
Last edited by Pete26 on 14 Oct 2013, 16:43, edited 4 times in total.

lokman
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4865

Post by lokman » 14 Oct 2013, 16:30

image.jpg


I have just visited the excellent McManus gallery and museum in Dundee and there is, rather bizarrely, what appears to be a Richtbeil and Richtblock in a display on crime & punishment. I can only surmise that they were brought home 'liberated' by a Scottish serviceman about 1945 or thereafter. Apologies for poor quality of pics.

Sorry pics will not upload via phone - will post ASAP
Attachments
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Last edited by lokman on 15 Oct 2013, 11:25, edited 3 times in total.

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Max
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4866

Post by Max » 15 Oct 2013, 05:17

You say the axe and block "appear' to be of German origin.
What makes you say this? Is there an inscription or some such that identifies them specifically?
The Items are displayed in the context of crime and punishment in Scotland where beheadings [ and the necessary equipment ] used to be quite common.
It is not necessary to say
I can only surmise that they were brought home 'liberated' by a Scottish serviceman about 1945 or thereafter
unless of course you have some other evidence.
Max
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

Pete26
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Gerhard Steinacher

#4867

Post by Pete26 » 15 Oct 2013, 06:36

19 year old Gerhard Steinacher was sentenced to death "for undermining the military force" (apparently for his refusal to serve in the German military) and guillotined in Plotzensee prison on 30 March 1940.

http://www.lilawinkel.at/wp-content/upl ... erhard.jpg

http://www.lilawinkel.at/2013/04/04/steinacher-gerhard/

Pete26
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Anton Uran

#4868

Post by Pete26 » 15 Oct 2013, 06:52

Image

http://www.memorial.at/uran/uran/images/2996URBA.gif

Anton Uran was another conscientious objector to military service. He converted to the Jehowas Witness faith and refused to serve in the German military. He was sentenced to death for undermining the military morale and beheaded in Brandenburg prison on 23 February 1943. (The Scholl siblings and Christoph Probst were beheaded in Stadelheim prison prison just one day earlier.)

lokman
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4869

Post by lokman » 15 Oct 2013, 11:08

Max wrote:You say the axe and block "appear' to be of German origin.
What makes you say this? Is there an inscription or some such that identifies them specifically?
The Items are displayed in the context of crime and punishment in Scotland where beheadings [ and the necessary equipment ] used to be quite common.
It is not necessary to say
I can only surmise that they were brought home 'liberated' by a Scottish serviceman about 1945 or thereafter
unless of course you have some other evidence.
Max
In appearance and design they closely resemble those of proven German provenance. I have now managed to upload the pictures (see above).

history1
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4870

Post by history1 » 15 Oct 2013, 12:55

Just an information for you guys.
The Documentation Centre of Austrian Resistance in Vienna is providing at the momend a download of the publication "Die Vollstreckung verlief ohne Besonderheiten - Hinrichtungen in Wien 1938 -1945 = The enforcement happened without peculiarity - executions in Vienna 1938-1945".
In German only, 32 MB as pdf.
Here´s the link:
http://www.doew.at/cms/download/52kem/doew-kern.pdf

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Max
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4871

Post by Max » 15 Oct 2013, 14:50

lokman wrote:
Max wrote:You say the axe and block "appear' to be of German origin.
What makes you say this? Is there an inscription or some such that identifies them specifically?
The Items are displayed in the context of crime and punishment in Scotland where beheadings [ and the necessary equipment ] used to be quite common.
It is not necessary to say
I can only surmise that they were brought home 'liberated' by a Scottish serviceman about 1945 or thereafter
unless of course you have some other evidence.
Max
In appearance and design they closely resemble those of proven German provenance. I have now managed to upload the pictures (see above).
You are right of course, it does look very much like a German model.
I wonder why they decided to exhibit it if it is not historically relevant to Scotland.
Cheers
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

Pete26
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4872

Post by Pete26 » 16 Oct 2013, 00:11

"This cone shaped wooden beheading device has a hollow where a prisoner's neck would rest before execution."

The hollowed out part of the block is obviously for the condemned to place his chin into, not his neck. The neck is stretched out on the cutting portion of the block.

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#4873

Post by fredric » 16 Oct 2013, 02:30

Pete26 wrote:"This cone shaped wooden beheading device has a hollow where a prisoner's neck would rest before execution."

The hollowed out part of the block is obviously for the condemned to place his chin into, not his neck. The neck is stretched out on the cutting portion of the block.
Correct. The concave area is for the chin. It also acts a spout for the first blood flow. Are you familiar with the richtbeil
execution protocol, condemned's attire, etc.? Of course it varied I am sure but the Reindel/Gropler/Krautz group followed
much the same, proven method developed by F. Reindel. By the time of the Third Reich, they had it perfected and of course it was used up to the establishment of the fallbeil. The photos of the Anton Gypz execution show some of the protocol.

Pete26
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The youngest person beheaded by fallbeil

#4874

Post by Pete26 » 20 Oct 2013, 14:45

Piotr1 wrote:... probably the youngest person during the Nazi regieme to be beheaded...

Walerian Wrobel ( 2 nd april 1925 +24 August 1942 ) was a little younger
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walerian_Wr%C3%B3bel
I found a reference to a 15 year old Frenchman Henri Deist who was guillotined in Brandenburg Görden prison. As mentioned before, the minimum execution age in the Third Reich was lowered to just 14 years old. Sometimes, children younger than 14 were executed. I found an article on an 11 year old boy who was executed together with his parents by shooting at Kounicovy College in Brno, Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.

http://www.dpjw.org/gedenkstaetten/de/i ... 254&id=239
Das jüngste Opfer war der Franzose Henri Delst, der im Alter von 15 Jahren unter dem Fallbeil starb.
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... S:official
The youngest victim was Frenchman Henri Delst, who died at the age of 15 years under the guillotine
Note: During the French revolution the youngest victim beheaded was 14, the oldest 92 (based on those for which the records exist).

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fredric
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Re: The youngest person beheaded by fallbeil

#4875

Post by fredric » 21 Oct 2013, 00:41

Pete26 wrote:
Piotr1 wrote:... probably the youngest person during the Nazi regieme to be beheaded...

Walerian Wrobel ( 2 nd april 1925 +24 August 1942 ) was a little younger
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walerian_Wr%C3%B3bel
I found a reference to a 15 year old Frenchman Henri Deist who was guillotined in Brandenburg Görden prison. As mentioned before, the minimum execution age in the Third Reich was lowered to just 14 years old. Sometimes, children younger than 14 were executed. I found an article on an 11 year old boy who was executed together with his parents by shooting at Kounicovy College in Brno, Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.

http://www.dpjw.org/gedenkstaetten/de/i ... 254&id=239
Das jüngste Opfer war der Franzose Henri Delst, der im Alter von 15 Jahren unter dem Fallbeil starb.
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... S:official
The youngest victim was Frenchman Henri Delst, who died at the age of 15 years under the guillotine
Note: During the French revolution the youngest victim beheaded was 14, the oldest 92 (based on those for which the records exist).
The content of this Forum element must always set within the horrific history of the depraved Reich, thus you input. I think we may find more young people died under the fallbeil than realized...young meaning those from Scholl to younger. While others may find our topic repellent, it is important. I think we have covered almost all we can from secondary sources. Let's continue the search...and find new information. I hope the unspoken observers of this topic will become involved. The photo of Wolfenbuettel is one of the most important "finds" this year.

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