Beheadings in the Third Reich

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tomh
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Re: Werner Seelenbinder

#6241

Post by tomh » 21 Mar 2017, 17:05

Pete26 wrote:Image

Werner Seelenbinder was guillotined in Brandenburg-Gorden prison on 24 October 1944.

http://www.gdw-berlin.de/typo3temp/_pro ... c3d881.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Seelenbinder
According to some sources Werner Seelenbinder was beheaded with an axe (for example both English and Finnish Wikipedia -pages). Any idea where that comes from? Just a misunderstood translation of "fallbeil"?
Or is it possible that the axe was still used occasionally, in situations when a guillotine was temporarily out of order, for example?

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Re: Werner Seelenbinder

#6242

Post by Pete26 » 22 Mar 2017, 04:55

tomh wrote: According to some sources Werner Seelenbinder was beheaded with an axe (for example both English and Finnish Wikipedia -pages). Any idea where that comes from? Just a misunderstood translation of "fallbeil"?
Or is it possible that the axe was still used occasionally, in situations when a guillotine was temporarily out of order, for example?
"Fallbeil" is often translated as "fall axe" or "case axe". So any statement that he was beheaded with an "axe" is due to a translation error. Seelenbinder was guillotined, here is one source that states this. I do not believe that there were any axe beheadings in the Third Reich in 1944.

https://books.google.com/books?id=8oD6G ... er&f=false
Last edited by Pete26 on 22 Mar 2017, 07:08, edited 1 time in total.


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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6243

Post by fredric » 22 Mar 2017, 05:37

In 1944 Brandeburg-Gordon had a Tegel and the executioner was Wilhelm Rottger, a scharfrichter who either used a fallbeil (he worked
both types) or the rope. Wili Rottger did not use the axe. Its use had been officially discontinued in the mid-1930's although it did remain
in use until all execution sites were equipped with a fallbeil.
The axe may have been used in sites where the fallbeil had been destroyed; the RMJ had confiscated and was
storing blocks and richtbeils. I recall a report that Hehr once was issued a richbeil for this reason in the later days of the War.
The translation of "Fall-beil" or "falling axe" is occasionally taken literally, which leads to the the misunderstanding.

Pete26
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6244

Post by Pete26 » 22 Mar 2017, 07:14

fredric wrote:In 1944 Brandeburg-Gordon had a Tegel and the executioner was Wilhelm Rottger, a scharfrichter who either used a fallbeil (he worked
both types) or the rope. Wili Rottger did not use the axe. Its use had been officially discontinued in the mid-1930's although it did remain
in use until all execution sites were equipped with a fallbeil.
The axe may have been used in sites where the fallbeil had been destroyed; the RMJ had confiscated and was
storing blocks and richtbeils. I recall a report that Hehr once was issued a richbeil for this reason in the later days of the War.
The translation of "Fall-beil" or "falling axe" is occasionally taken literally, which leads to the the misunderstanding.
Interesting information on the axes and blocks. A while ago I posted some photos of the Poznan fallbeil and one of them showed a beheading block. But no axe. So Poznan execution room actually kept a beheading block while using the fallbeil? Was that block used for axe beheading in that location before the fallbeil was installed?

tomh
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6245

Post by tomh » 22 Mar 2017, 13:59

Thank you.
Wikipedia also says that in 1944 Olga Bancic was beheaded with an axe. Definitely false.

Pete26
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6246

Post by Pete26 » 22 Mar 2017, 14:23

tomh wrote:Thank you.
Wikipedia also says that in 1944 Olga Bancic was beheaded with an axe. Definitely false.
There is an interesting post war period between 1945 and 1952. The Dresden fallbeil at Munchner Platz was supposedly destroyed by a bombing raid just before the end of the war. The replacement fallbeil was installed I believe in 1952 and it was used by East Germans for several years at that location for executions until late 1950s. This fallbeil was then moved to Leipzig in the early 1960s. However, executions by beheading took place in the late 1940's at Dresden Munchner Platz and the executioner was supposedly Gustav Volpel. It is possible that he actually carried out these executions with an axe. If that is true, then Paul Nitzche was one of those who was actually beheaded with an axe in Dresden. Nitsche was beheaded on 25 March 1948 in Dresden by Gustav Volpel. If there was no functional fallbeil at that location at that time, then this execution was most likely carried out with an axe. The story about Gustav Volpel showing up for a court hearing and then showing an axe in a case to those present to claim that he had a scheduled beheading to go to. And they let him go. It is quite possible that one of the people who were beheaded by Volpel that day was Paul Nitsche. It would be interesting to see when Volpel's court appearance took place and if that timeline agrees with Nitsche's execution date.

search.php?keywords=Paul+Nitsche&t=35191&sf=msgonly

However, wikipedia states that Nitsche was beheaded with a guillotine in Dresden. This would not be possible if there was no guillotine at Munchner Platz at that time.

Gustav Volpel was supposedly formally cherged with a crime on 28 March 1948, so his appearance in court for a preliminary hearing on 25 March 1948 is very possible (the day Nitsche was executed).

Here is another photo of Gustav Volpel in the lower left hand corner of the article:

http://magazin.spiegel.de/EpubDelivery/ ... f/44448015

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6247

Post by fredric » 22 Mar 2017, 17:06

Vopel reportedly obtained his axe from Breslau (prison). It could
have been Groppler's. I believe most authentic richtbeils from the 1800's -1949 (approx.)
would be in private collections. One of the most interesting stories is that when Ernst Reindel's
property was being sold and the house demolished (I believe), a richtbeil was found. Unfortunately
is was sold as scrap metal.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6248

Post by Pete26 » 23 Mar 2017, 05:26

Dort habe er, so Völpel, am Morgen des 25. März 1948 drei Fälle unterm Beil gehabt: Den Euthanasiearzt Paul Nitsche, dessen Gehilfen und einen Aufseher aus dem KZ Buchenwald, Gäbler. Er, Völpel, sei nämlich Nachrichter.Zuerst herrschte im Gerichtssaal ungläubiges Staunen. Zum Beweis öffnete Völpel seinen Handkoffer und zeigte Utensilien vor, darunter die gelbschwarze Gesichtsmaske mit dem Kreuz auf der Stirn. Ein Mann der damals populären Wochenzeitschrift "Sie" will auch ein blutiges Handbeil gesehen und später von Völpels Gattin in der Gabelsbergerstraße 7, Wohnküche, erfahren haben, dass dort das Richtgerät geputzt worden sei. Aber das gehört offenbar in die Frühzeit der Medienlegenden. Im Gefängnis am Münchner Platz in Dresden stand seit Jahrzehnten eine Guillotine.
Translated:

On the morning of March 25, 1948, he had three cases under the axe: the euthanasia physician Paul Nitsche, his assistants, and a warden from Buchenwald, Gäbler. He, Völpel, was their executioner. In the courtroom, incredulous amazement prevailed. To prove this, Völpel opened his bag and showed his tools, including the yellow-black face mask with the cross on his forehead. A man of the then popular weekly magazine "She" also wanted to see a bloody hand ax and later on from Völpel's wife in Gabelsbergerstrasse 7, Wohnküche, that the execution gear had been cleaned there. But this obviously belongs to the early days of media legends. A guillotine has been in the prison at the Münchner Platz in Dresden for decades.
The article treats this story as a legend, claiming that a guillotine was used at Munchner Platz instead. So the following questions remain: Was there a functional fallbeil at Munchner Platz Dresden between 1945 and 1952 and was this fallbeil used to perform executions there during this period? And if there was no fallbeil there at that time, was an axe and block used instead to perform executions there during the same period?


http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/noch-vie ... guillotine.

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

tomh
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6249

Post by tomh » 23 Mar 2017, 20:07

Indeed, very interesting:

http://www.bz-berlin.de/artikel-archiv/ ... er-in-haft

"Und mit wem macht Gladow gemeinsame Sache? Mit dem Henker von Berlin! Gustav Völpel köpft im Westen mit einer Guillotine aus einem Pariser Museum (1871 erbeutet). In der Zone per Handbeil (6 Kilo), das er in einem grünen Handkoffer mit zur Arbeit nimmt. 48 Hinrichtungen, an jeder verdient er 1000 Mark (Richter bekamen 300 Mark im Monat). „Scharfrichter-Hannes“ gibt Gladow Tips und wird sein Hehler. Bis er nach einem Überfall geschnappt wird – die gelb-schwarze Scharfrichter-Maske noch in der Manteltasche."

Translated by Google:

"And with whom does Gladow make common cause? With the hangman of Berlin! Gustav Völpel headed in the west with a guillotine from a Parisian museum (captured in 1871). In the zone by hand ax (6 kg), which he takes in a green handbag with to work. 48 executions, he earns 1,000 marks each (judge receives 300 marks a month). "Scharfrichter-Hannes" gives Gladow Tips and will be his stoker. Until he is caught after a raid - the yellow-black Scharfrichter mask still in the coat pocket."

Also several other sources say that in Berlin Völpel used the guillotine in the west and the hand axe in the east.

http://www.luise-berlin.de/bms/bmstxt00/0012pore.htm
http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/kleine-ga ... _id=240772
http://www.zeit.de/1981/19/als-berlin-chicago-war

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6250

Post by fredric » 24 Mar 2017, 01:10

My research agrees... fallbeil in West, richtbeil in Eastern Zone.
The Parisian museum is b.s. I do not believe the 48 number either
because we have the names of the executioners working in post-war
Berlin. He is not among them. He was a weasel and a small time
crook as was his wife. He was not trained by an established executioner.
I think Gustav Vopel may have worked the fallbeil in
Berlin, East and West, but I have not found a record that he beheaded
Gladow. I have been tracing his executioner and think I have his name.
Gladow was beheaded on a faulty Tegel. The post-war
German era is so hard to decipher.

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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6251

Post by Pete26 » 24 Mar 2017, 04:49

fredric wrote:My research agrees... fallbeil in West, richtbeil in Eastern Zone.
The Parisian museum is b.s. I do not believe the 48 number either
because we have the names of the executioners working in post-war
Berlin. He is not among them. He was a weasel and a small time
crook as was his wife. He was not trained by an established executioner.
I think Gustav Vopel may have worked the fallbeil in
Berlin, East and West, but I have not found a record that he beheaded
Gladow. I have been tracing his executioner and think I have his name.
Gladow was beheaded on a faulty Tegel. The post-war
German era is so hard to decipher.
So do you think my assertion that there was no fallbeil (or at least operational fallbeil) at Dresden Munchner Platz between 1945 and 1952 is correct? So it is possible that Nitsche was actually beheaded with an axe by Volpel? Did Volpel behead the twelve people in Moabit prison with the fallbeil after the war, or was it Clement Dobek?

And Volpel could not have beheaded Gladow because on 21 April 1950 he was sentenced to seven years in prison for a robbery. He was incarcerated in Tegel prison and he was released in 1957. Werner Gladow was beheaded in Frankfurt on Oder on 10 November 1950, while Volpel was serving time in Tegel prison.

tomh
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6252

Post by tomh » 24 Mar 2017, 13:10

Völpel certainly did not execute Gladow. According to several sourcess I found (some of which I linked in my previous post), Völpel was Gladow's accomplice. If he would have executed Gladow, that would have been mentioned somewhere, I think.

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

#6253

Post by fredric » 25 Mar 2017, 00:05

An educated guess is that Gladow's executioner was Dobeck. As far as I can tell, Dobeck had not
trained under Hehr, Reichhart, Rottger or any other experienced sharfrichter. so he may not have known how to properly operate or maintain the fallbeil.
An execution order should exist somewhere listing the Sharfrichter... but 1950's Berlin was a disorganized place. Maybe
the order will surface some day.

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Werner Gladow's execution

#6254

Post by Pete26 » 25 Mar 2017, 11:20

According to this article, the guillotine blade remained stuck in Werner Gladow's neck without killing him on the first two tries. Only the third blade fall severed his head. Some argued before that the blade just got stuck above Gladow's head twice without touching his neck. However, the prosecutor who was present during the execution supposedly fainted according to another article on the subject, so it was probably a very gruesome spectacle. They also mention strapping the convict to a moveable board (bascule) which would be on the guillotine only if it was an old unmodified Mannhardt or an old German wooden guillotine. Tegel guilotines did not have bascules. I do not know where the guillotine used in Frankfurt on oder came from, as Frankfurt on oder was not one of the Central execution sites during the Third Reich era. It is likely that the guillotine was a Tegel type and the part about trapping the convict to a board is not factually correct.
Blutiger Auftakt

Gladow, ein Metzgersohn aus einem Berliner Mietskasernen-Viertel, war athletisch, aufgeweckt - und einer der gefährlichste Gangster Deutschlands. Gerade 17-jährig hatte er 1948 das Kartell der "Weißen Krawatten" aufgebaut, er selbst sah sich in der Tradition des skrupellosen Mafia-Bosses Al Capone. Entsprechend lang war die Anklageliste, als Gladow nach einem einstündigen Feuergefecht mit der Volkspolizei festgenommen war und im Frühjahr 1950 vor Gericht gestellt wurde: Zwei Morde warfen die Ermittler seiner Bande vor, außerdem 15 Mordversuche, massenweise bewaffnete Überfälle, Straßenraub, Diebstahl, 21 Entwaffnungen von DDR-Beamten. Das Urteil über Bandenchef Gladow: Tod durch die Guillotine.

Wenige Monate später, am Morgen des 11. November 1950, schnallten die Beamten den Gangsterboss in Frankfurt an der Oder auf ein bewegliches Holzbrett. Sie schoben das Brett nach vorne, bis Gladows Genick unter der mächtigen Klinge lag. Um 6.05 Uhr fiel das Beil - und blieb im Nacken des Verurteilten stecken, ohne ihn zu töten. Zügig zogen die Henker die Schneide wieder hoch, wieder stürzte die Klinge herab. Erneut ohne Erfolg. Gladow brüllte vor Schmerz und Todesangst. Erst nach dem dritten Versuch rollte sein Kopf.
Translated by google:
Bloody prelude

Gladow, a butcher's son from a Berlin tenement quarter, was athletic, aroused, and one of the most dangerous gangsters of Germany. Just 17 years old, he had set up the cartel of the "White Ties" in 1948, he saw himself in the tradition of the unscrupulous mafia boss Al Capone. This was the length of the strike list, when Gladow was arrested after an hour - long firefight with the People 's Police, and was put to trial in the spring of 1950: two murders accused the investigators of his gang, 15 attempted assassinations, armed assaults, street robbery, theft, GDR officials. The verdict of Bandenchef Gladow: Death by the Guillotine.

A few months later, on the morning of November 11, 1950, the officers strapped the gangster boss in Frankfurt on the Oder to a mobile wooden board. They pushed the board forward until Gladows Genick was under the powerful blade. At 6:05 the ax fell - and remained stuck in the neck of the convict without killing him. The executioners quickly pulled the cutting edge up again, again the blade fell down. Again without success. Gladow shouted with pain and death fear. Only after the third attempt did his head roll.
http://www.spiegel.de/einestages/todess ... 47648.html

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Stage prop guillotine in film Engel aus Eisen

#6255

Post by Pete26 » 25 Mar 2017, 17:42

Image

This fake guillotine was used in the movie Engel aus Eisen (Angels of Iron). The movie is about Werner Gladow. Note the disproportionally large lunette opening and grossly oversized head bucket mounted too low, winch handle on the bucket side instead of the bench side, Mannhardt-like blade release lever with a strange ring on the end, flimsy blade release linkage on top, and what looks like a lifting ring on top. And the fixed bench has leather straps (not visible in this photo).

http://i68.servimg.com/u/f68/18/15/51/28/20131210.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angels_of_Iron

Ulrich Wesselmann, the actor in the photo who played Werner Gladow in the movie, committed suicide in 1993 at the age of 33.

Image

http://www.kino.de/wp-content/gallery/b ... x1920u.jpg

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