you are correct. the number is understated but perhaps never known.
the spring-loaded portable fallbeil was mentioned in a book about the persecution of homosexuals during the
Reich. So was the "apron" wearing executioners. I guess I have read most books on NZ period executions but found
this one years ago in a library in Pittsburgh PA. I think it is just bs.
Your translations are very very valuable to those who do not read German well.
Best. Thanks.
Beheadings in the Third Reich
Carl Gropler's 75th birthday
On the same day retired executioner Carl Gropler celebrated his 75th birthday (born on 22 February 1868), the Scholl siblings and Christoph Probst were beheaded in Stadelheim prison (22 February 1943).
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
Was it not the 23th of Februari that the Scholl Geschwister and Probst were beheaded?Or am I wrong.Anyway, a birthday present aptly presented to Gröpler....
The floor of the real execution chamber- the part directly behind the curtain-was made of smooth, reddish concrete.Later(we have seen it was in 1942 on instigation of Otto Thierack,orders from Hitler)a contraption for hanging was constructed, consisting of a H-formed iron beam on which were 8 movable hooks with a 3-step wooden podium for the executioner underneath, across the full width of the execution room.Near the Fallbeil machine was a water tap with a short hose, on the other side across the room was a sink.
The double curtain ,reaching from the ceiling down to the floor, was movable by a pull lever.
As beheading gear, a Fallbeil machine was transported from Bruchsal prison to Berlin-Plötzensee,which was inspected on the 19th of February by representatives from the Reichsjustizministerium and the State attourney bureau of the Circuit court in the presence of the warden, Vacano.The machine was constructed by an official from Bruchsal in a ground level storage room:
The floor of the real execution chamber- the part directly behind the curtain-was made of smooth, reddish concrete.Later(we have seen it was in 1942 on instigation of Otto Thierack,orders from Hitler)a contraption for hanging was constructed, consisting of a H-formed iron beam on which were 8 movable hooks with a 3-step wooden podium for the executioner underneath, across the full width of the execution room.Near the Fallbeil machine was a water tap with a short hose, on the other side across the room was a sink.
The double curtain ,reaching from the ceiling down to the floor, was movable by a pull lever.
As beheading gear, a Fallbeil machine was transported from Bruchsal prison to Berlin-Plötzensee,which was inspected on the 19th of February by representatives from the Reichsjustizministerium and the State attourney bureau of the Circuit court in the presence of the warden, Vacano.The machine was constructed by an official from Bruchsal in a ground level storage room:
Last edited by Paul53 on 03 May 2017, 13:01, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
" It is in pristine condition and functions without a hitch, which was confirmed by several experiments.The warden, Herr Oberstrafanstaltsdirektor(surpreme chief of punishment facility) Vacano stated that the Hannover Fallbeil machine that he himself had seen a few days earlier,was a bit lower, but of similar construction"
Last edited by Paul53 on 03 May 2017, 13:27, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
(I still have trouble translating the German Judicial language to US terms)
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
The Scholls and Probst were in fact beheaded on 22 February 1943. The executions started at 5 PM and it was all over about 20 minutes later.Paul53 wrote:Was it not the 23th of Februari that the Scholl Geschwister and Probst were beheaded?Or am I wrong.Anyway, a birthday present aptly presented to Gröpler....
The machine was constructed by an official from Bruchsal in a ground level storage room:
The order in which they were executed is different in several articles and books I read. Sophie was the first to go, they all agree on that, but accounts vary whether she was followed by Hans or Probst. Some interesting information I read recently is that Hans and Sophie Scholl were buried in a single grave, so they do not rest side by side but one above another. They mentioned that Hans was buried first, so he would be on the bottom of the grave. However, like so many other articles on the same subject, one must question if this is true information, or not.
The second sentence would be better translated as "The machine was assembled by an official from Bruchsal in a ground level storage room."
Last edited by Pete26 on 04 May 2017, 03:10, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
Are you talking abut the documents on the last page? I can help with ease if necessary.Paul53 wrote:(I still have trouble translating the German Judicial language to US terms)
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
Could be helpful yes.
Six communists beheaded with an axe in Koln
http://www.ksta.de/image/13710238/2x1/9 ... 81269-.jpg
On 30 November 1933 six communists were beheaded with an axe in Koln Klingelputz prison. They were sentenced to death for murder of two SA (Sturmableitung) troopers Spangenberg and Winterberg. Hermann Goering ordered that the executions be carried out with an axe instead of guillotine for better intimidation effect. It is not clear who the executioner was - Carl Gropler?
The executed were:
Josef Moritz (age 20)
Otto Walser (age 21 )
Hermann Hamacher (age 22)
Bernhard Willms (age 25 )
Heinrich Horsch (age 25)
Josef Engel (age 28)
http://www.ksta.de/im-jahr-1933-schaupr ... z-13709072
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
A more detailed text German of Klein's article (it is in Blazek's "Scharfrichter in Prussia...") contains a line from Klein's report saying that Klein thought the executioner was Carl Gropler.
I believe it was Gropler.
Here's why:
By the year 1933 Gropler had been carrying out executions with both axe and fallbeil in Koln, Berlin and many other locations. He
was highly qualified with the richtbeil according to the Reich court authorities.
What is interesting is that although Gropler was recognized as being skilled with the richtbeil, the "ksta" article claims the executioner was not sufficiently experienced with the axe.
I question this.
I doubt an inexperienced sharfrichter would have been approved for carrying out the axe beheading of eight victims.
This was a mass axe execution, twice the number Gropler would behead in 1934 (with axe) in Hamburg (the Red Marine group).
My guess is that Klein may have found a sensational report of the very bloody, horrifying execution of eight people, all young, which
claimed the executioner was inexperienced. Chopping off eight heads sequentially, rapidly and precisely with the richtbeil would be a daunting task. It might even take two axes and certainly a highly trained team.
So my conclusion is that it took an expert, Gropler.
I believe it was Gropler.
Here's why:
By the year 1933 Gropler had been carrying out executions with both axe and fallbeil in Koln, Berlin and many other locations. He
was highly qualified with the richtbeil according to the Reich court authorities.
What is interesting is that although Gropler was recognized as being skilled with the richtbeil, the "ksta" article claims the executioner was not sufficiently experienced with the axe.
I question this.
I doubt an inexperienced sharfrichter would have been approved for carrying out the axe beheading of eight victims.
This was a mass axe execution, twice the number Gropler would behead in 1934 (with axe) in Hamburg (the Red Marine group).
My guess is that Klein may have found a sensational report of the very bloody, horrifying execution of eight people, all young, which
claimed the executioner was inexperienced. Chopping off eight heads sequentially, rapidly and precisely with the richtbeil would be a daunting task. It might even take two axes and certainly a highly trained team.
So my conclusion is that it took an expert, Gropler.
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
Paul53 wrote:Was it not the 23th of Februari that the Scholl Geschwister and Probst were beheaded?Or am I wrong.Anyway, a birthday present aptly presented to Gröpler....
The floor of the real execution chamber- the part directly behind the curtain-was made of smooth, reddish concrete.Later(we have seen it was in 1942 on instigation of Otto Thierack,orders from Hitler)a contraption for hanging was constructed, consisting of a H-formed iron beam on which were 8 movable hooks with a 3-step wooden podium for the executioner underneath, across the full width of the execution room.Near the Fallbeil machine was a water tap with a short hose, on the other side across the room was a sink.
The double curtain ,reaching from the ceiling down to the floor, was movable by a pull lever.
As beheading gear, a Fallbeil machine was transported from Bruchsal prison to Berlin-Plötzensee,which was inspected on the 19th of February by representatives from the Reichsjustizministerium and the State attourney bureau of the Circuit court in the presence of the warden, Vacano.The machine was constructed by an official from Bruchsal in a ground level storage room:
In the Scholl film, the execution leader mentioned the date february 23th.Anyway, it is clear that a lot more sentences were carried out via the Fallbeil than was ever thought possible by previous historians.Between 35000 and 45000.(Source:Berufswunsch Henker)
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
35,000 to 45,000 is probably the correct number but we will never know for sure because complete records were either lost or not kept.
Executioners such as Weiss, Hehr, Rottger and Reichhart of course kept careful tabulations. Their income depended on it. However
my opinion executions in the greater Reich were not tabulated carefully... and I am talking about fallbeil executions.
Executioners such as Weiss, Hehr, Rottger and Reichhart of course kept careful tabulations. Their income depended on it. However
my opinion executions in the greater Reich were not tabulated carefully... and I am talking about fallbeil executions.
Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich
Thanks Piotr. I have seen this video of my friend Dr. Sybe Wartena before and it is much longer. In the full video, Dr. Wartena
shows the blade and even inserts a bolt. For some reason, the video sent only lasts a few seconds. I believe it was
removed from YouTube at the time the government decided not to display the fallbeil. After that, communications to
the public ended. It remains in storage. It is in outstanding condition for a machine made in 1854 and most components are
are intact including two blades. Perhaps in the future the BNM will be able to display the fallbeil. I speculate on this because Dr. Wartena
recently told me the museum has added a new curator/specialist on legal/criminal history to its staff... so there must be some
interest in the subject at this great museum.
shows the blade and even inserts a bolt. For some reason, the video sent only lasts a few seconds. I believe it was
removed from YouTube at the time the government decided not to display the fallbeil. After that, communications to
the public ended. It remains in storage. It is in outstanding condition for a machine made in 1854 and most components are
are intact including two blades. Perhaps in the future the BNM will be able to display the fallbeil. I speculate on this because Dr. Wartena
recently told me the museum has added a new curator/specialist on legal/criminal history to its staff... so there must be some
interest in the subject at this great museum.