Beheadings in the Third Reich

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tomh
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by tomh » 22 Nov 2020 22:05

Max wrote:
22 Nov 2020 12:35
According to the time stamps on pics 2 and 3, there is quite a long time.
Why is that?
Two different execution scenes.

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by fredric » 22 Nov 2020 22:09

von thoma wrote:
22 Nov 2020 09:20
What signified this bell placed on scaffoldIs it a signal to start the execution ?
The tolling of a prison bell throughout the entire execution goes back hundreds of years. The general idea was that the public should be
made aware the execution was underway and sound out far beyond the prison and summon people to "religious and moral contemplation"
of the crime and punishment. (see Evans, pp. 417 - 419. By 1895 tolling of the bell began to fall out of favor. It was felt it would
agitate the public (especially women...those were different time eh?) and of course the inmates of the prison who would fight to get a
view. It was part of the "Rituals of Retribution" when executions were considered "learning experiences" for the public which would reduce capital crimes. For years bell tolling continued as a tradition with a muffled bell. You can see the muffled bell in a photo of
Johann Reichhart and his helpers on the scaffold...it is on the Forum and also on the "Bois de Justice" site. There is one photo taken of
the execution shed exterior at Plotzensee (taken after the War) which also shows the bell.

I have not found video of the Berlin Babylon segment showing the 1929 execution. However the scene does show the bell, suspended on the scaffold.

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Hans1906
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Nov 2020 14:52

The formerly so called "Armesünderglocke" was a small bell that was rung during an execution, a centuries-old tradition.
Translates approximately as "Poor Sinners Last Bell..."

Quote from the merkur/munich website:
"Their sound was thus one of the last things the doomed men heard before they were broken on wheels, quartered, burned, hanged or beheaded. "The bell dates back to the time after the great city fire of 1327, that is, to the 14th century," explains the city expert. "During this time and also in the period that followed, there were many executions in Munich - right into the 19th century."

"Arme Sünder Glocke" in the City of Munich, Bavaria: https://www.merkur.de/lokales/muenchen/ ... 04714.html

Hans1906

P.S. fredric, the videos of "Babylon Berlin" are online av. in the ARD mediathek, please use the search box there...
Link: https://www.ardmediathek.de/ard/

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Hans1906
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Nov 2020 20:10

I also remember the german term "Totenglocke",

at the lutheran cemetery of my hometown, it was always the smallest bell in the bell tower , that was rung during a funeral.

Totenglocke / Wikipedia (G) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenglocke (With a soundfile...)


Hans1906

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by fredric » 24 Nov 2020 20:50

Hans1906 wrote:
24 Nov 2020 14:52
The formerly so called "Armesünderglocke" was a small bell that was rung during an execution, a centuries-old tradition.
Translates approximately as "Poor Sinners Last Bell..."

Quote from the merkur/munich website:
"Their sound was thus one of the last things the doomed men heard before they were broken on wheels, quartered, burned, hanged or beheaded. "The bell dates back to the time after the great city fire of 1327, that is, to the 14th century," explains the city expert. "During this time and also in the period that followed, there were many executions in Munich - right into the 19th century."

"Arme Sünder Glocke" in the City of Munich, Bavaria: https://www.merkur.de/lokales/muenchen/ ... 04714.html

Hans1906

P.S. fredric, the videos of "Babylon Berlin" are online av. in the ARD mediathek, please use the search box there...
Link: https://www.ardmediathek.de/ard/
Ja, armsunderglocke. The fact that Mannhardt Co. also manufactured fine bell-tower clocks as well as the famous Mannhardt fallbeil is a fabulous "reality". We all know Jos. Mannhardt later, when asked to produce more of his precision, durable fallbeille, would tell the Nazis that his firm no longer had the plans or the equipment or people to make the fallbeil.
If you or others have not done so, please study the the photos of Johann and team on Bois de Justice... and probably the Forum.
The photos were probably taken when Johann became Sharfricter, replacing his mentor, "Onkel Xaver"
.
The bell was rung in Plotzensee during the Hitler era (according to Pastor Harald Polchau according to one book). No further support for this...just that Polchau told people living near the prison to offer a prayer whenever they heard the bell. Source was a memoir book I
found years ago. Lost now.

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Hans1906
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Nov 2020 22:28

fredric, the were several german terms for this "last bell"

Armesünderglocke
Arme Seelen Glöcklein
Lumpenglocke
Sünderglöckchen
Malefizglöcklein / Malefiz Glocke

The term "Malefiz" is easy to translate as evil, mad, crime, something very bad, criminal behavior, etc.

The Hemingway novel "For Whom the Bell Tolls" for sure influenced by all this...

Hans1906

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by fredric » 24 Nov 2020 23:18

I am book collector/book appraiser. Few know this.
In my collection is a rare first edition of "For Whom the Bell Tolls"
i appreciate your insight.
Not sure the clock is evil.
I have German heritage. I speak and write poor German.
By heritage, I am Neidersachen und probably Bavarian/Prussian.
Yes... relatives in WW1.
Became fascinated with German legal/criminal history and capital punishment.
Can probably try to answer most questions. Your comments/questions are welcome and good.
Carter Dreves

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Hans1906
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Hans1906 » 24 Nov 2020 23:33

You are welcome, my "english" is as bad as your "german"... :lol:

Hans1906

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fredric
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by fredric » 25 Nov 2020 01:43

mein deutsch suck-ish, nein???
But I mean well.
And anything I have in the way of fallbeil or heinrichtungstatte protocol I will be happy to provide.
In America, I would say, Happy Thanksgiving.
But let me say "Happy Christmas"
c

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A good article on fallbeils

Post by Pete26 » 28 Nov 2020 06:14

http://amodelcastillo.blogspot.com/2020 ... emana.html

In one of the illustrations they show what the hook was actually used for - to pull the winch cable down after fall of the blade, not for scooping the heads out of the head basket, as some historians claim for the Pankrac fallbeil hook!

It is also stated in the article that Mannhardt sledge/blade combination weighed 68 kg, while Tegel sledge/blade was a bit lighter at 60 kg. A Mannhardt blade by itself weighs 15 kg, which makes it rather awkward to install and remove.

Some statements in the article are controversial, for example comments on the bucket next to the Mannhardt fallbeil in one of the photos. The author claims that the bucket was a "Mannhardt failbeil accessory", evidently to catch the blood if a sand pile was not used if the fallbeil was used outdoors.

Note: Recommend using google chrome browser to make translation into English quick and easy.

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von thoma
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by von thoma » 28 Nov 2020 08:57

An excellent site, I came across a good article of Minié bullets.
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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IlonaG
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by IlonaG » 05 Dec 2020 00:15

Pete26 wrote:
23 Oct 2020 05:41
von thoma wrote:
21 Oct 2020 01:43
https://www.vscr.cz/vazebni-veznice-pra ... tani-2020/


Is this gallery of horror open to the public ?
The Pankrac memorial is not open to the public because it is located within the grounds of an active prison.
Is there any way to obtain a list of those who were beheaded in 1943 at Pankrac Prison?
I have since come across letters written by my Uncle while in prison. The last letter dated October 29, 1943 addressed to my Aunt where he states that "in two hours I must die".
He was executed for deserting the SS.
I'm having some difficulty piecing together my family history.
Thanks so much.
Ilona

Pete26
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Re: Beheadings in the Third Reich

Post by Pete26 » 05 Dec 2020 02:12

IlonaG wrote:
05 Dec 2020 00:15


Is there any way to obtain a list of those who were beheaded in 1943 at Pankrac Prison?
https://www.ustrcr.cz/data/pdf/projekty ... jstrik.pdf

Those people with a sequence number before their name were beheaded in Pankrac prison between April 1943 and April 1945 in that order. The total number of beheaded people was 1075. The list also contains names of those sentenced to death who were granted a reprieve and not executed, and those who were saved from execution by Prague uprising. These names do not have a number.
Last edited by Pete26 on 05 Dec 2020 02:24, edited 2 times in total.

Pete26
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Inventor of the axe beheading bench

Post by Pete26 » 05 Dec 2020 02:19

According to this article, it was the executioner Friedrich Reindel who invented the beheading bench. This bench was of course used together with the execution block for years afterwards, most likely for the last time by Karl Groppler for the last axe beheadings in Germany in 1930's.
Friedrich Reindel constructed the bench "for the purpose of more humane, faster and safer execution of the execution" , which he first used on August 17, 1883 in Holzminden , when he beheaded the weaver and factory worker Franz Ille. After Julius Krautz, who had killed one of his assistants in a tavern fight, was sent into retirement, Reindel was his successor as Prussian executioner.

After 1898, no beheading carried out by Friedrich Reindel himself is documented, even if he remained the first point of contact for the authorities. He had rheumatic complaints in his arm. His son Wilhelm was his successor, but dismissed in 1901 due to continued drunkenness . His grandson Ernst was an executioner at the time of National Socialism.
https://www.wikiwand.com/de/Friedrich_Reindel

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Re: Inventor of the axe beheading bench

Post by tomh » 06 Dec 2020 20:47

Pete26 wrote:
05 Dec 2020 02:19
According to this article, it was the executioner Friedrich Reindel who invented the beheading bench. This bench was of course used together with the execution block for years afterwards, most likely for the last time by Karl Groppler for the last axe beheadings in Germany in 1930's.
Is there evidence that the last axe executions were actually carried out by Gröpler?
Apparently a number of beheadings were carried out by axe still during the first half of 1937, at least in Berlin Plötzensee and Köln Klingelputz prisons.
Also, according to this wikipedia article Ernst Reindel carried out axe executions until 1943, and beheaded a number of prisoners by axe in Bützow-Dreibergen between April and July 1942.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Reindel

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