Are Allied "Crimes" really equal to the Holocaust?

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David Thompson
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#76

Post by David Thompson » 03 Jun 2005, 23:03

Thanks, john h.

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Landser
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#77

Post by Landser » 04 Jul 2005, 21:47

DetectorCollector wrote:If you would say in war time, no, nothing can be compared with the German holocaust war crime. Even the Crusaders in the Middle Ages can't be compared to the German crimes against humanity. Stalin has more kills on his name as Hitler only he had more time to do it.
Now does'nt the above contradict what you tried to say about AH.Is that mean Stalin can be forgiven because it took him just some more time-less efficient?

I like how the West is trying to separate themself from their eastern warbuddies when it comes to unpleasantries about their glorious
partnership times.
It's such a hypocricy displayed when some ask ...Axis= Western Allies= Soviet atrocities.
At the time there was only a Allies=Axis situation.

With other words in summary. the "Allieds" had a lot more war murderous killings on their hands. And the West knew who they dealing with BEFORE they made a pact with the devil(Stalin).

I yes there is an excuse for it :D ... Realpolitik !


Molobo
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#78

Post by Molobo » 04 Jul 2005, 23:34

I like how the West is trying to separate themself from their eastern warbuddies when it comes to unpleasantries about their glorious
partnership times.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/nazsov/sesupp1.htm
The undersigned plenipotentiaries, on concluding the German Russian Boundary and Friendship Treaty, have declared their agreement upon the following:

Both parties will tolerate in their territories no Polish agitation which affects the territories of the other party. They will suppress in their territories all beginnings of such agitation and inform each other concerning suitable measures for this purpose.

Moscow, September 28,1939.

For the Government of the German Retch:

J. RIBBENTROP

By authority of the Government of the U.S.S.R.:

W. MOLOTOV
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/nazsov/dec939.htm
After the Government of the German Reich and the Government of the U.S.S.R. have, by means of the treaty signed today, definitively settled the problems arising from the collapse of the Polish state and have thereby created a sure foundation for a lasting peace in Eastern Europe, they mutually express their conviction that it would serve the true interest of all peoples to put an end to the state of war existing a present between Germany on the one side and England and France on the other. Both Governments will therefore direct their common efforts, jointly with other friendly powers if occasion arises, toward attaining this goal as soon as possible.

Should, however, the efforts of the two Governments remain fruitless, this would demonstrate the fact that England and France are responsible for the continuation of the war, whereupon, in case of the continuation of the war, the Governments of Germany and of the U.S.S.R. shall engage in mutual consultations with regard to necessary measures.

Moscow, September 28,1939.

For the Government of the German Reich:
J. RIBBENTROP

By authority of the Government of the U.S.S.R.:
V. MOLOTOV

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Landser
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#79

Post by Landser » 05 Jul 2005, 01:56

MOL

The Non-aggression pact was a necessity since England only declared war on GER.Had to keep his back covered.
I think!

Besides he was the only one who tried get to get read of him.


PS Sorry if this is O/T

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#80

Post by David Thompson » 05 Jul 2005, 03:25

The Non-aggression pact was a necessity since England only declared war on GER.Had to keep his back covered.
I think!
The non-aggression pact between Germany and the USSR was signed 23 Aug 1939. Great Britain, France, etc. didn't declare war on Germany until 3 Sept 1939.

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#81

Post by nny » 16 Jul 2005, 21:54

Interesting topic, I'm sorry to see that only one other person has completed your form :)

Are Allied "Crimes" really equal to the Holocaust? Please fill in the blanks if you can:

Nazi = Soviet = Western Allies
=================================
Coventry = Wilhelm Gustloff = Dresden

Völksdeutsch Re-Settlement = German Expulsions = Executive Order #9066.

Commissar Order = Katyn = Pattons speeches to the 45th division.

Concentration Camps = Gulags =

Death Camps = Kolyma =

Einsatzgruppen = NKVD =

Democide of Communists = Democide of Kulaks / Nationalistic Elements (Ukranians / Poles etc) = Forced Repatriation

Democide of Jehova's Witnesses = (See Above) = (See Above)

Democide of Homosexuals = (See Above) = (See Above)

Genocide of Jews = Tartars / Volga Germans / Chechyns = Bengal Famine (1943)

Genocide of Rommany = (See Above) = (See Above)

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WalterS
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#82

Post by WalterS » 18 Jul 2005, 07:41

This is a silly topic..
Coventry = Wilhelm Gustloff = Dresden

None of these are war crimes. They are all acts of war.

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#83

Post by Karman » 18 Jul 2005, 09:17

nny wrote:Interesting topic, I'm sorry to see that only one other person has completed your form :)

Are Allied "Crimes" really equal to the Holocaust? Please fill in the blanks if you can:

Nazi = Soviet = Western Allies
=================================

Commissar Order = Katyn = Pattons speeches to the 45th division.
AFAIK Comissar order meant that all captured comissars have to be exterminated. But Katyn did not mean that all Poles captured on the territory of SU were to be exterminated.
nny wrote: Concentration Camps = Gulags =

Death Camps = Kolyma =
In this context "Kolyma" is just a part of GULAG and if in your text you recognize the existence of death camps in Germany then neither camps in Kolyma nor any other camps of GULAG fit the definition of death camps if a "death camp" is not just a graphic speech token but a practical deat works.
nny wrote: Genocide of Jews = Tartars / Volga Germans / Chechyns = Bengal Famine (1943)

Genocide of Rommany = (See Above) = (See Above)
Well with all due respect the deportation of Krimean Tartars and Volga Germans as well as Chechens were not equal to Genocide.

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Andy H
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#84

Post by Andy H » 18 Jul 2005, 14:45

NNY wrote:
Genocide of Jews = Tartars / Volga Germans / Chechyns = Bengal Famine (1943)
The link you make between the Genocide of the Jews and that of the Bengal Famine is a lost cause. In the thread link below everyone apart from the author of the thread seems to be arguing against it. Incompetence doesn't equal Genocide

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=80207

Andy H

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Landser
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#85

Post by Landser » 18 Jul 2005, 14:55

Karman

No matter how you slice it,but good ole USSR had already up to 10 million of its own people systematicly killed or slaughtered,BEFORE WWII started.If it comes to the numbers game,I don't think Communism can ever be beat.



PS Your handle reminds me of the great fun it was when I drove the Karman-Ghia I owned some time ago.

Karman
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#86

Post by Karman » 18 Jul 2005, 15:04

Landser wrote:Karman

No matter how you slice it,but good ole USSR had already up to 10 million of its own people systematicly killed or slaughtered,BEFORE WWII started.If it comes to the numbers game,I don't think Communism can ever be beat.
Many times on this forum many people have placed many articles produced by both Russian and foreign authors quoting the archives that gave the figures of Stalin's terror. If you except the Civil War no one can make the figures up to 10 million "systematicly killed or slaughtered" save those who still believe in scary fair tales.

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#87

Post by AdolfDettmer » 18 Jul 2005, 15:29

Repatriation is not a crime...Immoral yes, but not something outside the bounds of a nation to do in a time of war.

It definately does not compare to the Nazi MURDER of Homosexuals/Gypsies/Jehovahs Witnesses.

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Landser
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#88

Post by Landser » 18 Jul 2005, 15:48

Adolf D. wrote:
Repatriation is not a crime...Immoral yes, but not something outside the bounds of a nation to do in a time of war.
Is'nt that what AH did 1939 to get the german lands back from Poland?


Besides the dismissal and slaughter of civilians went on AFTER the war.

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#89

Post by Molobo » 18 Jul 2005, 17:58

Is'nt that what AH did 1939 to get the german lands back from Poland?
Poland possesed no German land in 1939.No territories with German majority(even in 1910 and with military personal counted).Besides Adolf Hitler used mass murder.

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Kunikov
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#90

Post by Kunikov » 18 Jul 2005, 23:15

Landser wrote:Karman

No matter how you slice it,but good ole USSR had already up to 10 million of its own people systematicly killed or slaughtered,BEFORE WWII started.If it comes to the numbers game,I don't think Communism can ever be beat.



PS Your handle reminds me of the great fun it was when I drove the Karman-Ghia I owned some time ago.
What exactly is your source for 10 million?

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