One of the guys who clearly was involved will not stand trial:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30391649
Was this because it involved evidence that the Stasi collected illegally?
Oradour-Sur-Glane
Re: Oradour-Sur-Glane
hello !
Georges-René Boos is still alive:
http://www.lepopulaire.fr/limousin/actu ... 32005.html
danyb
Georges-René Boos is still alive:
http://www.lepopulaire.fr/limousin/actu ... 32005.html
danyb
Re: Oradour-Sur-Glane
On Michael Williams website there is the alternative German/Das Reich view about what happened in the town on June 10th.
http://www.oradour.info/appendix/rikmen01.htm This view is summarised and presented by Marc Rickmenspoel. who cites his sources as:
1) Tulle and Oradour: A Franco-German Tragedy, by Otto Weidinger, translated by Colin B. Newberry. Privately published, 1985.
2) Oradour-sur-Glane: A "Clear-cut" Atrocity?, by Richard Landwehr, in Siegrunen Magazine, vol. IV, #3 (21 overall), September 1980.
3) Stonecry, The Scream of the Stones: Research in the ruins of the church in Oradour-sur-Glane to verify a war crime, by Pierre Moreau, translated from the French. Privately published, no date.
There are many controversial theories put forward which ultimately swing the blame for what happened in the town back on the citizens instead of the men of the DF regiment- Among the evidence presented, there is also a very bizarre statement made by a retired Bundeswehr Officer: 'Oberstleutnant Eberhard Matthes' who visited the town in 1963 and 1964. He maintained that his presence in a German uniform was not met with hostility by the towns people, on the contrary, he was warmly greeted and told incredible stories about what happened that day which contradict the known version of events. These truths were never revealed at the trial he was told. The most contentious of his allegations was that it was a civilian (probably a partisan) who had set the fire/explosion in the church and that the SS present had tried in vain to save the women and children.
None of this account mentions the names of those who gave him this information. While there is much evidence from the few survivors of the atrocity to re-butt this fantastical account, I am intrigued to know more about this Oberst. Does anyone have information about him to verify his existence and provide some background as to his service record, place of residence and any other pertinent information? I have only been able to find information on him that only ever leads back to this story.
http://www.oradour.info/appendix/rikmen01.htm This view is summarised and presented by Marc Rickmenspoel. who cites his sources as:
1) Tulle and Oradour: A Franco-German Tragedy, by Otto Weidinger, translated by Colin B. Newberry. Privately published, 1985.
2) Oradour-sur-Glane: A "Clear-cut" Atrocity?, by Richard Landwehr, in Siegrunen Magazine, vol. IV, #3 (21 overall), September 1980.
3) Stonecry, The Scream of the Stones: Research in the ruins of the church in Oradour-sur-Glane to verify a war crime, by Pierre Moreau, translated from the French. Privately published, no date.
There are many controversial theories put forward which ultimately swing the blame for what happened in the town back on the citizens instead of the men of the DF regiment- Among the evidence presented, there is also a very bizarre statement made by a retired Bundeswehr Officer: 'Oberstleutnant Eberhard Matthes' who visited the town in 1963 and 1964. He maintained that his presence in a German uniform was not met with hostility by the towns people, on the contrary, he was warmly greeted and told incredible stories about what happened that day which contradict the known version of events. These truths were never revealed at the trial he was told. The most contentious of his allegations was that it was a civilian (probably a partisan) who had set the fire/explosion in the church and that the SS present had tried in vain to save the women and children.
None of this account mentions the names of those who gave him this information. While there is much evidence from the few survivors of the atrocity to re-butt this fantastical account, I am intrigued to know more about this Oberst. Does anyone have information about him to verify his existence and provide some background as to his service record, place of residence and any other pertinent information? I have only been able to find information on him that only ever leads back to this story.
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phillip burke
- Member
- Posts: 169
- Joined: 04 Dec 2004, 03:18
- Location: united kingdom
Re: Oradour-Sur-Glane
Hello all, anybody know anything about book callled, Oradour,Massacre and Aftermath. its by Robin Mackness. It claims the massacre was the result of a botched ambush on Das Reich convoy carrying a shipment of gold.
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lastenausgleich
- Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 15 Mar 2022, 22:43
- Location: Italy
Re: Oradour-Sur-Glane
Excuse when I take up on this very old thread.
The "information" about newly discovered documental evidence "in Germany" reported by Michael Willams alerted my suspicion. I write this in May 2022, and ever since Michael was told this "news" during on of his regular trips to Oradour I at least have neither heard anything more about this "new information", let alone found any written evidence.
I deal with the problems and factual evidence of Oradour since 2010, including the written documentation about any of the SS officers alleged personal responsibility or even direct orders. All what circulates re this partiicular question ends in assumptions and severs contradictions.
There is no proof at all thus far - except the undeniable truth that Diekmann gave the order to destroy the village, and that order was given when the SS unit was already in Oradour and the questioning of the men re hidden weapons and explosives and about a purportedly hidden German officer met with not the slighest answers or reactions from the village's male inhabitants gathered on the champ de foire.
Back to that "information": there have come up real new things lately. French author Michael Baury - though claiming not to bebe neither a "negationiste" nor a partial revisionist - considering himself to be a "revisioniste intègre", his many publications abund with new and highly "tricky" information. The real "bombshell" is the uncut publication of Mathieu Borie's diary with naming people who were members of the résistance in Oradour: Monsieur Dupic, head of the Armée secrète group of Oradour - and Borie writes below one of the many original photographies he made in the destroyed village: "Pharmacie Pascaud, résistant de mon groupe d'Oradour" What the hell does that mean? Resistance fighters in Oradour, led by Mathieu Borie, one of the survivers from the Laudy barn ??? The man must be a liar concerning what has been spread all over the years about the "peaceful little village" miles and miles away from any contact with the resistance. Now, all this new evidence comes from France - Monsieur P. Charron, member of this forum, might be able to continue here with more, provided he still adheres to Michel Baury, together with whom he published a book. Of course Baury received some severe blows from his fellow countrymen who accuse him of spreading lies.
OF COURSE, all this new evidence does not AT ALL justify what happened in Oradour, yet this evidence is part of the old principle "audiatur et altera pars".
A short aside re the story of Karl Gerlach's kidnapping and his return to Limoges where he told he had been taken to Oradour. Actually he hab been taken to Peyrilhac. One of the newly discovered very old witnesses of that event tracked down by French television and by Baury. Monsieur Darnajoux, sheds new light of this event which was considered to by an SS fake story for years. Darnajoux was the son of the owner of the bakery in front of which Gerlach was tied up and later transported to the place where he was to be shot but was lucky to escape. This whole story is revealed as true by Darnajoux, even though there are slight differences.
Now, this Monsieur Darnajoux reported also that many years ago he had been shown a "document" kept in some archive in which Gerlach himself discribed the circumstance of his flight from the woods where he was to be shot, and that report was in severe contracistion to his official report form 1951 - and what tops it, in contradiction to what Rqaymond Frdonnet, the FTPF group leader who watched Gerlach's flight, not acting in any way, because he feared to hit one of his men had he aimed at the fleeing Gerlach. Now, that are stories, aren't they?? We have the complete identity of what Gerlach told with what the FTPF man Fredonnet recalled - and we have a mysterious "document" from some dark source in Limoges telling a rather different story. What is puzzling more is that this "document" which surely would not have been handed over to the French by the SS or Lammerding/Stadler/Weidinger in that case, only exists in the memory of Monsier Darnajoux and has not come to light every since. This reminds one very much of the "documenrt" about which Michael Williams heard or was told by someone in Oradour. In consequence of all this and in repetition of what some here wrote already: let us see these documents - or keep your mouths shut.
p.s. I am certain that Monsieur Charron would have reported any news about such "documents" if they really existed...
regards, lastenausgleich
The "information" about newly discovered documental evidence "in Germany" reported by Michael Willams alerted my suspicion. I write this in May 2022, and ever since Michael was told this "news" during on of his regular trips to Oradour I at least have neither heard anything more about this "new information", let alone found any written evidence.
I deal with the problems and factual evidence of Oradour since 2010, including the written documentation about any of the SS officers alleged personal responsibility or even direct orders. All what circulates re this partiicular question ends in assumptions and severs contradictions.
There is no proof at all thus far - except the undeniable truth that Diekmann gave the order to destroy the village, and that order was given when the SS unit was already in Oradour and the questioning of the men re hidden weapons and explosives and about a purportedly hidden German officer met with not the slighest answers or reactions from the village's male inhabitants gathered on the champ de foire.
Back to that "information": there have come up real new things lately. French author Michael Baury - though claiming not to bebe neither a "negationiste" nor a partial revisionist - considering himself to be a "revisioniste intègre", his many publications abund with new and highly "tricky" information. The real "bombshell" is the uncut publication of Mathieu Borie's diary with naming people who were members of the résistance in Oradour: Monsieur Dupic, head of the Armée secrète group of Oradour - and Borie writes below one of the many original photographies he made in the destroyed village: "Pharmacie Pascaud, résistant de mon groupe d'Oradour" What the hell does that mean? Resistance fighters in Oradour, led by Mathieu Borie, one of the survivers from the Laudy barn ??? The man must be a liar concerning what has been spread all over the years about the "peaceful little village" miles and miles away from any contact with the resistance. Now, all this new evidence comes from France - Monsieur P. Charron, member of this forum, might be able to continue here with more, provided he still adheres to Michel Baury, together with whom he published a book. Of course Baury received some severe blows from his fellow countrymen who accuse him of spreading lies.
OF COURSE, all this new evidence does not AT ALL justify what happened in Oradour, yet this evidence is part of the old principle "audiatur et altera pars".
A short aside re the story of Karl Gerlach's kidnapping and his return to Limoges where he told he had been taken to Oradour. Actually he hab been taken to Peyrilhac. One of the newly discovered very old witnesses of that event tracked down by French television and by Baury. Monsieur Darnajoux, sheds new light of this event which was considered to by an SS fake story for years. Darnajoux was the son of the owner of the bakery in front of which Gerlach was tied up and later transported to the place where he was to be shot but was lucky to escape. This whole story is revealed as true by Darnajoux, even though there are slight differences.
Now, this Monsieur Darnajoux reported also that many years ago he had been shown a "document" kept in some archive in which Gerlach himself discribed the circumstance of his flight from the woods where he was to be shot, and that report was in severe contracistion to his official report form 1951 - and what tops it, in contradiction to what Rqaymond Frdonnet, the FTPF group leader who watched Gerlach's flight, not acting in any way, because he feared to hit one of his men had he aimed at the fleeing Gerlach. Now, that are stories, aren't they?? We have the complete identity of what Gerlach told with what the FTPF man Fredonnet recalled - and we have a mysterious "document" from some dark source in Limoges telling a rather different story. What is puzzling more is that this "document" which surely would not have been handed over to the French by the SS or Lammerding/Stadler/Weidinger in that case, only exists in the memory of Monsier Darnajoux and has not come to light every since. This reminds one very much of the "documenrt" about which Michael Williams heard or was told by someone in Oradour. In consequence of all this and in repetition of what some here wrote already: let us see these documents - or keep your mouths shut.
p.s. I am certain that Monsieur Charron would have reported any news about such "documents" if they really existed...
regards, lastenausgleich
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lastenausgleich
- Member
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 15 Mar 2022, 22:43
- Location: Italy
Re: Oradour-Sur-Glane
Addendum. Here
https://archive.org/details/@ol_manmusi ... itleSorter
you can find the results of my ten years of research presenting the facts AND the problems or rather the 'dark areas'. Anyone member here who can contribute to solving certain problems or new documents would be asked to kindly contact me as I am always eager to learn.
regards, lastenausgleich
https://archive.org/details/@ol_manmusi ... itleSorter
you can find the results of my ten years of research presenting the facts AND the problems or rather the 'dark areas'. Anyone member here who can contribute to solving certain problems or new documents would be asked to kindly contact me as I am always eager to learn.
regards, lastenausgleich