Nazifying the Germans

[Benoit Douville]

I also heard that Von Manstein had some Jew blood. How in the world the Nazi accepted him?

[Mensch Meyer]

I also heard that Von Manstein had some Jew blood. How in the world the Nazi accepted him?

That's not unusual. There were as many as 150.000 Jews in Hitler's army. Many were highly decorated nazi officers.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/763473.asp#BODY

[Benoit Douville]

So they had double standart too in the Third Reich.

[Mensch Meyer]

So they had double standart too in the Third Reich.

_WHO_ had the "double standards?" -- German Jews - or the Nazis?

[Roberto]

I also heard that Von Manstein had some Jew blood. How in the world the Nazi accepted him?

That's not unusual. There were as many as 150.000 Jews in Hitler's army. Many were highly decorated nazi officers.

Full-blooded Jews, Mr. Meyer? Or so-called "persons of mixed blood of the first degree" who had children with "Aryan" spouses and "persons of mixed blood of the second degree"?

The Chief of the Security Police and the SD discusses the following points, at first theoretically, in regard to a letter from the chief of the Reich chancellery:

1) Treatment of Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree

Persons of mixed blood of the first degree will, as regards the final solution of the Jewish question, be treated as Jews.

From this treatment the following exceptions will be made:

a) Persons of mixed blood of the first degree married to persons of German blood if their marriage has resulted in children (persons of mixed blood of the second degree). These persons of mixed blood of the second degree are to be treated essentially as Germans.

b) Persons of mixed blood of the first degree, for whom the highest offices of the Party and State have already issued exemption permits in any sphere of life. Each individual case must be examined, and it is not ruled out that the decision may be made to the detriment of the person of mixed blood.

The prerequisite for any exemption must always be the personal merit of the person of mixed blood. (Not the merit of the parent or spouse of German blood.)

Persons of mixed blood of the first degree who are exempted from evacuation will be sterilized in order to prevent any offspring and to eliminate the problem of persons of mixed blood once and for all. Such sterilization will be voluntary. But it is required to remain in the Reich. The sterilized "person of mixed blood" is thereafter free of all restrictions to which he was previously subjected.

2) Treatment of Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree

Persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be treated fundamentally as persons of German blood, with the exception of the following cases, in which the persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be considered as Jews:

a) The person of mixed blood of the second degree was born of a marriage in which both parents are persons of mixed blood.

b) The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a racially especially undesirable appearance that marks him outwardly as a Jew.

c) The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a particularly bad police and political record that shows that he feels and behaves like a Jew.

Also in these cases exemptions should not be made if the person of mixed blood of the second degree has married a person of German blood.

3) Marriages between Full Jews and Persons of German Blood.

Here it must be decided from case to case whether the Jewish partner will be evacuated or whether, with regard to the effects of such a step on the German relatives, [this mixed marriage] should be sent to an old-age ghetto.

4) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of German Blood.

a) Without Children.

If no children have resulted from the marriage, the person of mixed blood of the first degree will be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto (same treatment as in the case of marriages between full Jews and persons of German blood, point 3.)

b) With Children.

If children have resulted from the marriage (persons of mixed blood of the second degree), they will, if they are to be treated as Jews, be evacuated or sent to a ghetto along with the parent of mixed blood of the first degree. If these children are to be treated as Germans (regular cases), they are exempted from evacuation as is therefore the parent of mixed blood of the first degree.

5) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree or Jews.

In these marriages (including the children) all members of the family will be treated as Jews and therefore be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto.

6) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree.

In these marriages both partners will be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto without consideration of whether the marriage has produced children, since possible children will as a rule have stronger Jewish blood than the Jewish person of mixed blood of the second degree.

SS-Gruppenführer Hofmann advocates the opinion that sterilization will have to be widely used, since the person of mixed blood who is given the choice whether he will be evacuated or sterilized would rather undergo sterilization.

State Secretary Dr. Stuckart maintains that carrying out in practice of the just mentioned possibilities for solving the problem of mixed marriages and persons of mixed blood will create endless administrative work. In the second place, as the biological facts cannot be disregarded in any case, State Secretary Dr. Stuckart proposed proceeding to forced sterilization.

Furthermore, to simplify the problem of mixed marriages possibilities must be considered with the goal of the legislator saying something like: "These marriages have been dissolved."

From the protocol of the Wannsee Conference, as translated under

http://library.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/germ/wanneng.html

[Mensch Meyer]

I also heard that Von Manstein had some Jew blood. How in the world the Nazi accepted him?

That's not unusual. There were as many as 150.000 Jews in Hitler's army. Many were highly decorated nazi officers.

Full-blooded Jews, Mr. Meyer? Or so-called "persons of mixed blood of the first degree" who had children with "Aryan" spouses and "persons of mixed blood of the second degree"?

The Chief of the Security Police and the SD discusses the following points, at first theoretically, in regard to a letter from the chief of the Reich chancellery:

1) Treatment of Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree

Persons of mixed blood of the first degree will, as regards the final solution of the Jewish question, be treated as Jews.

From this treatment the following exceptions will be made:

a) Persons of mixed blood of the first degree married to persons of German blood if their marriage has resulted in children (persons of mixed blood of the second degree). These persons of mixed blood of the second degree are to be treated essentially as Germans.

b) Persons of mixed blood of the first degree, for whom the highest offices of the Party and State have already issued exemption permits in any sphere of life. Each individual case must be examined, and it is not ruled out that the decision may be made to the detriment of the person of mixed blood.

The prerequisite for any exemption must always be the personal merit of the person of mixed blood. (Not the merit of the parent or spouse of German blood.)

Persons of mixed blood of the first degree who are exempted from evacuation will be sterilized in order to prevent any offspring and to eliminate the problem of persons of mixed blood once and for all. Such sterilization will be voluntary. But it is required to remain in the Reich. The sterilized "person of mixed blood" is thereafter free of all restrictions to which he was previously subjected.

2) Treatment of Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree

Persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be treated fundamentally as persons of German blood, with the exception of the following cases, in which the persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be considered as Jews:

a) The person of mixed blood of the second degree was born of a marriage in which both parents are persons of mixed blood.

b) The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a racially especially undesirable appearance that marks him outwardly as a Jew.

c) The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a particularly bad police and political record that shows that he feels and behaves like a Jew.

Also in these cases exemptions should not be made if the person of mixed blood of the second degree has married a person of German blood.

3) Marriages between Full Jews and Persons of German Blood.

Here it must be decided from case to case whether the Jewish partner will be evacuated or whether, with regard to the effects of such a step on the German relatives, [this mixed marriage] should be sent to an old-age ghetto.

4) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of German Blood.

a) Without Children.

If no children have resulted from the marriage, the person of mixed blood of the first degree will be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto (same treatment as in the case of marriages between full Jews and persons of German blood, point 3.)

b) With Children.

If children have resulted from the marriage (persons of mixed blood of the second degree), they will, if they are to be treated as Jews, be evacuated or sent to a ghetto along with the parent of mixed blood of the first degree. If these children are to be treated as Germans (regular cases), they are exempted from evacuation as is therefore the parent of mixed blood of the first degree.

5) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree or Jews.

In these marriages (including the children) all members of the family will be treated as Jews and therefore be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto.

6) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree.

In these marriages both partners will be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto without consideration of whether the marriage has produced children, since possible children will as a rule have stronger Jewish blood than the Jewish person of mixed blood of the second degree.

SS-Gruppenführer Hofmann advocates the opinion that sterilization will have to be widely used, since the person of mixed blood who is given the choice whether he will be evacuated or sterilized would rather undergo sterilization.

State Secretary Dr. Stuckart maintains that carrying out in practice of the just mentioned possibilities for solving the problem of mixed marriages and persons of mixed blood will create endless administrative work. In the second place, as the biological facts cannot be disregarded in any case, State Secretary Dr. Stuckart proposed proceeding to forced sterilization.

Furthermore, to simplify the problem of mixed marriages possibilities must be considered with the goal of the legislator saying something like: "These marriages have been dissolved."

From the protocol of the Wannsee Conference


---------------------------embarrassed balaver-------------------------


What matters is that today each of Hitler's Military Mischlinge in a Nazi uniform would qualify as a Jewish Citizen of the State of Israel-- under the Law of Return....

[Dan]

Under German law one's mother or father didn't matter, but I believe Israeli law is matrilinear.

[Roberto]

I also heard that Von Manstein had some Jew blood. How in the world the Nazi accepted him?

That's not unusual. There were as many as 150.000 Jews in Hitler's army. Many were highly decorated nazi officers.

Full-blooded Jews, Mr. Meyer? Or so-called "persons of mixed blood of the first degree" who had children with "Aryan" spouses and "persons of mixed blood of the second degree"?

The Chief of the Security Police and the SD discusses the following points, at first theoretically, in regard to a letter from the chief of the Reich chancellery:

1) Treatment of Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree

Persons of mixed blood of the first degree will, as regards the final solution of the Jewish question, be treated as Jews.

From this treatment the following exceptions will be made:

a) Persons of mixed blood of the first degree married to persons of German blood if their marriage has resulted in children (persons of mixed blood of the second degree). These persons of mixed blood of the second degree are to be treated essentially as Germans.

b) Persons of mixed blood of the first degree, for whom the highest offices of the Party and State have already issued exemption permits in any sphere of life. Each individual case must be examined, and it is not ruled out that the decision may be made to the detriment of the person of mixed blood.

The prerequisite for any exemption must always be the personal merit of the person of mixed blood. (Not the merit of the parent or spouse of German blood.)

Persons of mixed blood of the first degree who are exempted from evacuation will be sterilized in order to prevent any offspring and to eliminate the problem of persons of mixed blood once and for all. Such sterilization will be voluntary. But it is required to remain in the Reich. The sterilized "person of mixed blood" is thereafter free of all restrictions to which he was previously subjected.

2) Treatment of Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree

Persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be treated fundamentally as persons of German blood, with the exception of the following cases, in which the persons of mixed blood of the second degree will be considered as Jews:

a) The person of mixed blood of the second degree was born of a marriage in which both parents are persons of mixed blood.

b) The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a racially especially undesirable appearance that marks him outwardly as a Jew.

c) The person of mixed blood of the second degree has a particularly bad police and political record that shows that he feels and behaves like a Jew.

Also in these cases exemptions should not be made if the person of mixed blood of the second degree has married a person of German blood.

3) Marriages between Full Jews and Persons of German Blood.

Here it must be decided from case to case whether the Jewish partner will be evacuated or whether, with regard to the effects of such a step on the German relatives, [this mixed marriage] should be sent to an old-age ghetto.

4) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of German Blood.

a) Without Children.

If no children have resulted from the marriage, the person of mixed blood of the first degree will be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto (same treatment as in the case of marriages between full Jews and persons of German blood, point 3.)

b) With Children.

If children have resulted from the marriage (persons of mixed blood of the second degree), they will, if they are to be treated as Jews, be evacuated or sent to a ghetto along with the parent of mixed blood of the first degree. If these children are to be treated as Germans (regular cases), they are exempted from evacuation as is therefore the parent of mixed blood of the first degree.

5) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree or Jews.

In these marriages (including the children) all members of the family will be treated as Jews and therefore be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto.

6) Marriages between Persons of Mixed Blood of the First Degree and Persons of Mixed Blood of the Second Degree.

In these marriages both partners will be evacuated or sent to an old-age ghetto without consideration of whether the marriage has produced children, since possible children will as a rule have stronger Jewish blood than the Jewish person of mixed blood of the second degree.

SS-Gruppenführer Hofmann advocates the opinion that sterilization will have to be widely used, since the person of mixed blood who is given the choice whether he will be evacuated or sterilized would rather undergo sterilization.

State Secretary Dr. Stuckart maintains that carrying out in practice of the just mentioned possibilities for solving the problem of mixed marriages and persons of mixed blood will create endless administrative work. In the second place, as the biological facts cannot be disregarded in any case, State Secretary Dr. Stuckart proposed proceeding to forced sterilization.

Furthermore, to simplify the problem of mixed marriages possibilities must be considered with the goal of the legislator saying something like: "These marriages have been dissolved."

From the protocol of the Wannsee Conference

---------------------------embarrassed balaver-------------------------

Cut out the crap, Meyer. I was just setting the record straight following your somewhat misleading statement. Any problem with that?

What matters is that today each of Hitler's Military Mischlinge in a Nazi uniform would qualify as a Jewish Citizen of the State of Israel-- under the Law of Return....

Boy, you seem to know a lot about Israeli citizenship laws which, if your statement is accurate, I would consider rather generous.

But then, the issues that matter to Meyer are usually such that I couldn't care less about, and this one is no exception.

[Mensch Meyer]

I also heard that Von Manstein had some Jew blood. How in the world the Nazi accepted him?

That's not unusual. There were as many as 150.000 Jews in Hitler's army. Many were highly decorated nazi officers.

Roberto

Cut out the crap, Meyer. I was just setting the record straight following your somewhat misleading statement. Any problem with that?

What matters is that today each of Hitler's Military Mischlinge in a Nazi uniform would qualify as a Jewish Citizen of the State of Israel-- under the Law of Return....

Boy, you seem to know a lot about Israeli citizenship laws which, if your statement is accurate, I would consider rather generous.

But then, the issues that matter to Meyer are usually such that I couldn't care less about, and this one is no exception.

Go ahead, feast your eyes! Can't you just hear them klick their heels ?

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html

[Roberto]

I also heard that Von Manstein had some Jew blood. How in the world the Nazi accepted him?

That's not unusual. There were as many as 150.000 Jews in Hitler's army. Many were highly decorated nazi officers.

Roberto

Cut out the crap, Meyer. I was just setting the record straight following your somewhat misleading statement. Any problem with that?

What matters is that today each of Hitler's Military Mischlinge in a Nazi uniform would qualify as a Jewish Citizen of the State of Israel-- under the Law of Return....

Boy, you seem to know a lot about Israeli citizenship laws which, if your statement is accurate, I would consider rather generous.

But then, the issues that matter to Meyer are usually such that I couldn't care less about, and this one is no exception.

Go ahead, feast your eyes! Can't you just hear them klick their heels ?

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html

Interesting, but what's the intended message?

The self-contradictory nature of the racist madness that led to the murder of millions of people?

[viriato]

Einstein was born in Ulm the 14th March 1879.

[Mensch Meyer]

Einstein was born in Ulm the 14th March 1879.

Great !! That makes Einstein a Swabian who grew up on dumplings and Spaetzle

[Mensch Meyer]

Einstein was born in Ulm the 14th March 1879.

Great !! That makes Einstein a Swabian who grew up on dumplings and Spaetzle

[Roberto]

Einstein was born in Ulm the 14th March 1879.

Great !! That makes Einstein a Swabian who grew up on dumplings and Spaetzle

That's probably what he considered himself to be before the Nazis made him aware that he was a Jew.

[Mensch Meyer]

Einstein was born in Ulm the 14th March 1879.

Great !! That makes Einstein a Swabian who grew up on dumplings and Spaetzle

That's probably what he considered himself to be before the Nazis made him aware that he was a Jew.

Sure enough. And soon after he stopped being a Swabian, Einstein didn't like being a Jew either, because he wrote this nasty letter to the New York Times, printed December 4, 1948, signed by 28 prominent Jews, including Hannah Arent, and Sidney Hook.

"Among the disturbing political phenomena of our time is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party," a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy, and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

"The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatsoever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy, and anti-imperialism, whereas recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist State. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character: From its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

"A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. The terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and general havoc at Deir Yassin. The Deir Yassin incident exemplified the character of the Freedom Party.

"Within the Jewish community they have preached a mixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other fascist parties, they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of the trade unions. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them; adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window smashing and widespread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute..."

HRRRMPH !!