New film on Holocaust: Amen by Costa Gavras

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Ovidius
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New film on Holocaust: Amen by Costa Gavras

#1

Post by Ovidius » 18 Mar 2002, 20:59

I had never thought I will ever say this, but I've just seen a good, interesting, well-made, human film on the Jewish Holocaust; a film without the perpetual Hollyweird(read Steven Spielberg) stereotypes of Bad Nazi/Good Ally(Jew), and also a film that dares to attack some of the widespread prejudices.

Title: Amen, made after the play Der Stellvertreter of Rolf Hochhuth from 1962

Take a look:

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0280653

http://dossiers.lesoir.be/Amen/touslesa ... 023A3A.asp

http://www.ecrannoir.fr/films/02/amen.htm

:D Also one of the very few works of fiction to show Kurt Gerstein in a favorable light.

~Best regards,

Ovidius

PS Most work on the film had been done in Bucharest, while a lot of the characters are played by Romanian actors.

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Scott Smith
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Amen

#2

Post by Scott Smith » 19 Mar 2002, 09:54

The film puts to trial the silence of all those who knew and kept silent...
I was curious. Now I'm really curious.
:o :o


Ovidius
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Quote from the film

#3

Post by Ovidius » 19 Mar 2002, 21:29

"Some treasons are the last resort of justice." - Father Ricardo Fontana
:wink: It sounds pretty like a quote from Mike Miller or Roberto Muehlenkamp(medorjurgen).

Is anyone of them involved in the making of this film? :twisted:

~Ovidius

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More...

#4

Post by Ovidius » 19 Mar 2002, 21:37

Anyway, it's pretty funny to see the "Reich Ministry of Justice" filmed in the Casa de Economii si Consemnatiuni(Romanian national savings bank) ... :lol:

or the Vatican halls reproduced inside the Romanian Palace of Parliament... :lol:

or the dead Jews unloaded from blue Roman-Brasov trucks rented from the Romanian Gendarmerie... :D

:lol: :lol: :lol:

~Regards,

Ovidius

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Roberto
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Re: More...

#5

Post by Roberto » 19 Mar 2002, 21:51

Ovidius wrote: or the dead Jews unloaded from blue Roman-Brasov trucks rented from the Romanian Gendarmerie... :D

:lol: :lol: :lol:

~Regards,

Ovidius
I guess that if it were dead Gypsies, my friend Ovidius would have even more fun. Am I right?

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#6

Post by Dan » 19 Mar 2002, 22:04

I think he's talking about the lack of verisimilitude concerning the trucks themselves.

Ovidius
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fun

#7

Post by Ovidius » 19 Mar 2002, 22:54

:evil: I see Mr. Muehlenkamp aka medorjurgen comments about the Gendarmerie trucks/vans(look pretty much like the Diesel gas-vans involved in the alleged mobile gassing of Jews), but not about the quote from character Fontana. :evil: :evil:

Anyway, I think the film has to be seen by any person interested in the chain of Jewish massacres known as Holocaust, for this film's director dares to break with the Politically Correct tradition that demands that any man on the NS side must be portrayed as a heartless killing machine, that the images of dreadful things must be shown again and again etc

There is not a single explicit scene in the film, but it still impresses. The expression of Gerstein's figure when looking through the peep-hole of a gaschamber, although we can't see what he sees, tells more than a hundred photos with fake smoke clouds or three-armed dead women. Not to mention the repeated image of the running 'highest priority' freight train, once full, a few minutes later returning empty, through the landscape where everyone continues undisturbed his job, the priests talking, the soldiers fighting, the workers working, and Gerstein improving the gassing methods while he tries desperately to alert the world about the horror that takes place.

Rejected by his friends, by his former colleagues, by even his own father on the ground that 'Germans are not able to do such horrors', Gerstein tries with the determination of a bulldog to make his voice heard, helped only by an accidentally met young Jesuite priest(Fontana), and permanently supervised by his boss, a cold and cynical man known only as The Doctor. Traitor? yes, but human, subject to his conscience. Neither trying to kill like Stauffenberg, nor trying to say that the Allies are right, like Scholl & Co, wanting the military victory on the battlefield for his country, but a clean victory, not stained by Jewish blood. He deserved the death penalty, from his bosses for betraying state secrets to the enemy, from the Allies for cooperating in massacres, but he still remains a man, a human being caught in the grinding machine of war and destruction. The photo showing the real Gerstein with a tough robotic face seems farther from truth than the fictional character played by Ulrich Tukur.

Of course, there are historical inaccuracies in the film: the mentally ill people were killed by injecting poison, not by gassing with a Diesel(again!) engine from a disabled truck; the Zyklon B was never used at Treblinka, hence the claim of the commander for more gas doesw not make sense. But these are just details.

The film is worthy to be seen.

~Best regards,

Ovidius

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Vatican

#8

Post by Ovidius » 19 Mar 2002, 23:02

Because the film does attack the silence of Pope Pius XII and his refusal to defy Hitler, the Vatican has rejected any offer to cooperate.

Therefore, the filming of the Vatican interior scenes took place in the giant marble halls of the Romanian Palace of Parliament, while the outer scenes of the Holy City's gardens were filmed in the redecorated park of the Mogosoaia Palace outside Bucharest(17th century mansion built by Prince Constantin Brancoveanu).

~Regards,

Ovidius

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Pius XII

#9

Post by Ovidius » 19 Mar 2002, 23:26

Eugenio Pacelli aka Pius XII had been attacked throughout the last decades by plenty of people, mostly amateurs without too much knowledge of history, but almost all of them interested in supporting a political, economic or personal agenda.

What is the reality:

Pius XII did negotiate an agreement with Hitler in 1933, to protect the interests of His Church on the territory of the Reich. Himself a Catholic, Hitler was more approachable by the Holy See after the long domination of the Protestant Royal House of Prussia.

Pius XII did congratulate General Franco for his victory, because Franco was a supporter of the Church, unlike the Leftist groups that dominated the Republic.

Pius XII did help a large number of Jews(thousands), housing even a few thousands of them in His residences.

Finally, Pius XII was not in position to protest publicly against anyone during warfare. The Vatican was surrounded by German and Italian troops, and it could be occupied in a matter of minutes. A strong statement of the Pope could result in His imprisonment or execution. A dead Pope was exactly what would have brought most profit for the Allied camp - all the Christian countries, Catholic or not, would have rallied to the Allied side, because an act of violence against His Holiness was unthinkable. Another charge would have been added on the list at the Nuremberg mock-Trial, a charge enough outrageous to attract the eternal curse on anything related to National Socialism. Both Hitler and Pius XII knew this and none of them wanted this to happen. Maybe the Allies needed a Martyr-Pope, but Pius XII was not eager to sacrifice his life to support the cause of the American magnates and Russian Bolsheviks. It was a matter of balance.

~Best regards,

Ovidius

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Scott Smith
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Amen

#10

Post by Scott Smith » 20 Mar 2002, 02:53

Good points, Ovidius. I would like to see that movie. Why don't you write a comprehensive review of it and maybe we can get it published.
:)

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#11

Post by Benoit Douville » 20 Mar 2002, 05:08

This movie is not in North America yet i think.

Ovidius resume well the situation, the Pope Pius XII was a diplomat during that period of time.

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Roberto
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#12

Post by Roberto » 20 Mar 2002, 12:09

<<I see Mr. Muehlenkamp aka medorjurgen comments about the Gendarmerie trucks/vans(look pretty much like the Diesel gas-vans involved in the alleged mobile gassing of Jews), but not about the quote from character Fontana.>>

Why should I? Does the character say anything special? From what I understood, he’s just parroting a widely held prejudice about criminal justice. In regard to the kind of justice dispensed by the Romanian regime of the time he may even be right. As to Nazi justice, his words don’t begin to scratch the surface.

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Justice

#13

Post by Ovidius » 20 Mar 2002, 13:06

++I see Mr. Muehlenkamp aka medorjurgen comments about the Gendarmerie trucks/vans(look pretty much like the Diesel gas-vans involved in the alleged mobile gassing of Jews), but not about the quote from character Fontana.++

<<Why should I? Does the character say anything special? From what I understood, he&#8217;s just parroting a widely held prejudice about criminal justice. In regard to the kind of justice dispensed by the Romanian regime of the time he may even be right. As to Nazi justice, his words don&#8217;t begin to scratch the surface>>

Then you've understood wrong, because the character was talking about Gerstein's betrayal of military secrets to the Allied representatives.

I don't understand myself what the "justice dispensed by the Romanian regime of the time"(which time!? which regime!? which justice!?) has to do with the film.

~Ovidius

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Roberto
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#14

Post by Roberto » 20 Mar 2002, 13:15

<<Then you've understood wrong, because the character was talking about Gerstein's betrayal of military secrets to the Allied representatives.>>

In that case the good Father must have been referring to betrayal in a positive sense.

<<I don't understand myself what the "justice dispensed by the Romanian regime of the time"(which time!? which regime!? which justice!?) has to do with the film.>>

Antonescu’s or the subsequent Communist regime, I presumed. I guess I’ll have to see the film.

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Re: Pius XII

#15

Post by Tarpon27 » 20 Mar 2002, 16:06

Ovidius wrote:
Finally, Pius XII was not in position to protest publicly against anyone during warfare. The Vatican was surrounded by German and Italian troops, and it could be occupied in a matter of minutes. A strong statement of the Pope could result in His imprisonment or execution.
Okay, I understand your reasoning.



[/quote]A dead Pope was exactly what would have brought most profit for the Allied camp - all the Christian countries, Catholic or not, would have rallied to the Allied side, because an act of violence against His Holiness was unthinkable. [/quote]

Does this not just contradict what you said above?

Or am I missing the point?

According to the above, the Pope could not speak out without fear of reprisals, yet at the same time, an action against the Pope would have insured world wide condemnation of, say, Nazis who would assault the Pope or do physical harm to him.

"Unthinkable" as you say.

So what would stop him? Not even considering the reaction of the Italians per being Axis allies to the Germans, should the Nazis move against the Pope and the Vatican?

I am NOT trying to get into the argument of whether or not the Pope could have done more to stop the killing of Jews.

Thanks, Mark

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