Warcrimes in Nanking 1937

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
Post Reply
zstar
Member
Posts: 157
Joined: 15 Oct 2004, 07:32
Location: as

#46

Post by zstar » 12 Jul 2005, 16:13

All i know is many Chinese hate the Japanese (including me) and i hope that island country gets a taste of its own medicine.

The truth is most Chinese would celebrate if million Japanese died just so we can have a taste of justice.

Sorry to sound harsh but it's the general view.

Japan plundered China and set its social and economic progress by decades and because of Japan Communism was able to flourish in China and ulimately many of war criminals were not brought to Justice.

Take a look at their damn governor in Tokyo and old racist fool who hates Chinese and Koreans and calls them by an offensive name as well as saying that the Nanjing massacre was "a Chinese fabrication".

While we're at it look at the Yasukuni shrine and you will see these are a people who believe what the Imperial Japanese army did in WW2 was to "liberate" asia and yet the prime minister still visits.

Millions of weapons are left over and many Japanese soldiers that went back home after the war started bragging about how many Chinese they killed while they returned honored as "heroes" and Chinese and Koreans as well as other asians are left with nothing but misery and poverty.

So tell me how the hell was Justice served?

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23722
Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:52
Location: USA

#47

Post by David Thompson » 12 Jul 2005, 16:59

zstar -- You said:
All i know is many Chinese hate the Japanese (including me) and i hope that island country gets a taste of its own medicine.

The truth is most Chinese would celebrate if million Japanese died just so we can have a taste of justice.
From the H&WC section rules:
National and religious insults are forbidden by this first rule of the forum, as are racist remarks and slang expressions for ethnic, religious or racial groups. Remarks containing insulting generalizations about nationalities, ethnic groups, societies or religious groups and practices are not permitted here. This includes remarks about collective responsibility.

Nonconforming posts are subject to deletion without warning. Serious breaches of these rules are punishable by banning the poster.

H&WC Section Rules
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962
This Forum discourages the attribution of the acts of some government officials to an entire people. We don't tolerate genocidal sentiments.


Karl
Member
Posts: 2729
Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 03:55
Location: S. E. Asia

#48

Post by Karl » 13 Jul 2005, 03:03

zstar wrote:So tell me how the hell was Justice served?
If you had the power, how do you think justice, in 2005, would realistically and fairly (for all partys - 2nd and 3rd generations after the fact are either approaching middle age or adulthood) best be served?

Karl
Member
Posts: 2729
Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 03:55
Location: S. E. Asia

#49

Post by Karl » 14 Jul 2005, 12:54

Not so easy, is it?

Tycoon2002
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 13:31
Location: London, UK

#50

Post by Tycoon2002 » 26 Jul 2005, 23:30

Do you know why the Chinese arent accepting the Japanese apologies? Its because the Japanese dont mean simply because they have these so called 'war hero' shrines which praise what they did. These 'war heros' killed 15 million asian people but the Japanese still has these shrines. What would the U.S or Britain if Germany started building shrines of Hitler or Goering? And people going to pay their respects to them? There would be outrage but the Japanese are still allowed these shrines in their country, they apologize what they did...then they turn their back and pray for the murderers.

You people saying the Chinese 'Whinging' or 'Complaining' are pittiful. Go say that to the chinese people who lost their family members in the most brutal ways or even an Allied POW. Dont forget only 4% of POWS in German camps died, 37% of POWS died in Japanese camps. 1 in 3 white prisoners died in captivity, for asians it was far worse.

Larry D.
Member
Posts: 4103
Joined: 05 Aug 2004, 00:03
Location: Winter Springs, FL (USA)

#51

Post by Larry D. » 27 Jul 2005, 00:00

The Japanese didn't even keep Chinese prisoners after they were tortured and interrogated. They were beheaded or bayonetted.

As for the shrines, perhaps this is why we are seeing such an immense and worrisome buildup of Chinese military forces right now. The Western media hypothesizes that it's for an eventual invasion of Taiwan. But maybe its for an eventual invasion of Honshū. Think about it. :wink:

Tycoon2002
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 13:31
Location: London, UK

#52

Post by Tycoon2002 » 27 Jul 2005, 13:07

Well I just dont like people saying the Chinese are 'Whinging' when they suffered terribly in the hands of the Japs. Suffering and torture words cant even describe. My father was captured during the Singapore battle along with about 70,000 others and when the Americans liberated the prison camp, my dad was just 5 stone. Without the Americans I wouldnt be here, the Japanese were vile racist men who killed anyone who they thought were in a lower racial order than them.

I cant stand these people who say the Chinese are whinging when they havent even been apologized to once by the Japanese let alone these disraceful war shrines. I garantee if people deny the Japanese cruelty, sympathese or say the people who suffered (like my father or other people who were brutally treated) are 'Whinging' they would spit in their face for their ignorance.

The Japanese should always remember the pain they inflicted on 15 million people. So no i dont blame the Chinese for being bitter.

Panzermahn
Member
Posts: 3639
Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 04:51
Location: Malaysia

#53

Post by Panzermahn » 27 Jul 2005, 13:32

Being a Malaysian Chinese myself, I agreed with what zstar and Tycoon2002 said.

There shall never be any reconcilliation towards the Japanese people until the Japanese people, whole heartedly, together with the entire Japanese Government and the Japanese royal family officially and sincerely apologises, own up to her past, acknowledges its own historical militaristic brutality and barbarianism, and pay apropriate compensation to the surviving victims especially the "comfort women".

Panzermahn

P.S. The same thing Russia should do for European and all the victims of Bolshevism in the world

Tycoon2002
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 13:31
Location: London, UK

#54

Post by Tycoon2002 » 29 Jul 2005, 14:09

I wont accept the Japanese apologies as real as long as they still have those war shrines. I tell you thing though the Japanese were lucky they only got 2 atomic bombs on them. If there was a full scale invasion of Japan like they had planned in the summer, the Japanese were expected to lose millions, My father said when the Chinse and Phillipine soldiers heard about this invasion which they planned, they immedianetly wanted to help as they wanted revenge on the Japanese especially the ones whose family members were slaughted. I garantee the Chinese and Philippine soldiers would of butchered every Japanese they saw, thats how angry they were and thats how lucky the Japanese were that a full scale invasion wasnt executed.

The Japanese say the atomic bombs were war crimes commited by the Allies which are laughable but when they treated my father, other Allied soliders, chinese soldiers, Phillpine soldiers, Koreans and civlians like they did they should think what they say next.

As I said previously they were lucky they wernt invaded as if they were, the Chinese and Phillipine soliders wouldnt of accepeted any mercy.

User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
Posts: 15326
Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 21:51
Location: UK and USA

#55

Post by Andy H » 29 Jul 2005, 18:03

Lets keep to the thread topic and lets try and keep opinions to a minimum.

Kind Regards to All

Andy H

Panzermahn
Member
Posts: 3639
Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 04:51
Location: Malaysia

#56

Post by Panzermahn » 30 Jul 2005, 09:41

Tycoon2002 wrote:I wont accept the Japanese apologies as real as long as they still have those war shrines. I tell you thing though the Japanese were lucky they only got 2 atomic bombs on them. If there was a full scale invasion of Japan like they had planned in the summer, the Japanese were expected to lose millions, My father said when the Chinse and Phillipine soldiers heard about this invasion which they planned, they immedianetly wanted to help as they wanted revenge on the Japanese especially the ones whose family members were slaughted. I garantee the Chinese and Philippine soldiers would of butchered every Japanese they saw, thats how angry they were and thats how lucky the Japanese were that a full scale invasion wasnt executed.

The Japanese say the atomic bombs were war crimes commited by the Allies which are laughable but when they treated my father, other Allied soliders, chinese soldiers, Phillpine soldiers, Koreans and civlians like they did they should think what they say next.

As I said previously they were lucky they wernt invaded as if they were, the Chinese and Phillipine soliders wouldnt of accepeted any mercy.
Hi Tycoon2002

I understand your anger. But not all Japanese are barbarians such as Tojo. My uncle (who is still alive) told me an anecdote during his childhood time in Penang, Malaya 1943 when the Japanese had occupied Malaya and Singapore..

He was studying Japanese language with several children including teenage girls from a Japanese teacher who spoke English and Mandarin. One day, some drunken Japanese soldiers came to my uncle's school, looking for young girls to be taken away to be raped. They came into my uncle's class, saw two teenage girls and wanted to take them away. The two teenage girls cried and then when the Japanese teacher, came in, he shouted at those drunken Japanese soldier in loud voice and slapped them each twice in the face. The Japanese teacher were even prepared to called the Kempeitai (!) to arrest these drunken Japanese. Those drunken Japanese soldiers, stand abashed and apologise profusely to the Japanese teacher and never ever return again and no such incident ever occur again at my uncle's school for the duration of the war.

Afterwards, the Japanese teacher bowed and apologises to the whold class because he said that "these are scumbags and it is not the behaviour of soldiers of the Japanese Emperor" and promised to protect everyone which he did as nobody in his class were ever harmed as long as they were in the school.

Later in 1943 when there were food shortages in Penang, this Japanese teacher brought half a sack of rice and distributed to it all of his students including my uncle

My uncle never heard again of this kind-hearted Japanese teacher after 1945


My opinion is, the remains of Japanese war criminals should never be placed together with the remains of ordinary Japanese soldiers who were not war criminals and committed no war crimes.

We should realised that not all Japanese soldiers are war criminals but the same thing cannot be said of the Bolsheviks.

Regards
Panzermahn

User avatar
DXTR
Member
Posts: 591
Joined: 21 Jun 2005, 20:29
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

#57

Post by DXTR » 30 Jul 2005, 11:08

panzermahn wrote:
We should realised that not all Japanese soldiers are war criminals but the same thing cannot be said of the Bolsheviks.
while this is not a place to start a debate on russian war crimes, I must object to this overly generalisation unless panzermahn made a grammatical error.

So of the millions of russian soldiers you know that each and everyone was a war criminal? coudos to your research capabilities! I suspect it would be ridiculous to ask you for any substantial proof of such an allegation? According to your claim even the soviet soldiers who died on the very first day of barbarossa was a war criminal by default.... I did not know that all russian soldiers who died on the frontline june 22 1941 had either fought in finland, near Khalkin Gol or in the civil war. That is if your claim just by initial default had any merit...

Tycoon2002
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 13:31
Location: London, UK

#58

Post by Tycoon2002 » 30 Jul 2005, 11:54

Panzermahn wrote:
Tycoon2002 wrote:I wont accept the Japanese apologies as real as long as they still have those war shrines. I tell you thing though the Japanese were lucky they only got 2 atomic bombs on them. If there was a full scale invasion of Japan like they had planned in the summer, the Japanese were expected to lose millions, My father said when the Chinse and Phillipine soldiers heard about this invasion which they planned, they immedianetly wanted to help as they wanted revenge on the Japanese especially the ones whose family members were slaughted. I garantee the Chinese and Philippine soldiers would of butchered every Japanese they saw, thats how angry they were and thats how lucky the Japanese were that a full scale invasion wasnt executed.

The Japanese say the atomic bombs were war crimes commited by the Allies which are laughable but when they treated my father, other Allied soliders, chinese soldiers, Phillpine soldiers, Koreans and civlians like they did they should think what they say next.

As I said previously they were lucky they wernt invaded as if they were, the Chinese and Phillipine soliders wouldnt of accepeted any mercy.
Hi Tycoon2002

I understand your anger. But not all Japanese are barbarians such as Tojo. My uncle (who is still alive) told me an anecdote during his childhood time in Penang, Malaya 1943 when the Japanese had occupied Malaya and Singapore..

He was studying Japanese language with several children including teenage girls from a Japanese teacher who spoke English and Mandarin. One day, some drunken Japanese soldiers came to my uncle's school, looking for young girls to be taken away to be raped. They came into my uncle's class, saw two teenage girls and wanted to take them away. The two teenage girls cried and then when the Japanese teacher, came in, he shouted at those drunken Japanese soldier in loud voice and slapped them each twice in the face. The Japanese teacher were even prepared to called the Kempeitai (!) to arrest these drunken Japanese. Those drunken Japanese soldiers, stand abashed and apologise profusely to the Japanese teacher and never ever return again and no such incident ever occur again at my uncle's school for the duration of the war.

Afterwards, the Japanese teacher bowed and apologises to the whold class because he said that "these are scumbags and it is not the behaviour of soldiers of the Japanese Emperor" and promised to protect everyone which he did as nobody in his class were ever harmed as long as they were in the school.

Later in 1943 when there were food shortages in Penang, this Japanese teacher brought half a sack of rice and distributed to it all of his students including my uncle

My uncle never heard again of this kind-hearted Japanese teacher after 1945


My opinion is, the remains of Japanese war criminals should never be placed together with the remains of ordinary Japanese soldiers who were not war criminals and committed no war crimes.

We should realised that not all Japanese soldiers are war criminals but the same thing cannot be said of the Bolsheviks.

Regards
Panzermahn
A good interesting story Panzermahn. I know not all Japanees are like that, but most in the army were savages as their offices told them to be ruthless to the enemy e.g The officers made all soldiers do bayonet practice on the Chinese POWS to make them more 'braver' in battle. I know one story that when the Nanking massacre was happening, it was broadcasted in the west and even the Nazis were horrified what the Japanese were doing. A Nazi John Rabe who set up the safety zones even wrote a letter to Hitler to convice them to stop the slaughter, when nothing was being done Rabe went to Nanking with a handful of other westeners and saved a lot of Chinese people.

Though Id respect the Japanese a lot more if they get rid of those war shrines and compensate the victims for instance the comfort women, suviving victims or family members. Not only do the Japanese deny the massacre, they havent compensated these victims and they pray for the murderers in the shrine. Their apologises are fony as they claimed they have apologised 17 times, but then they go to the shrine and pray for them so of course they dont mean the apologises. But I doubt they'd apologise fully now as it has been about 60 years, but the main thing we shouldnt forget the victims and we should make the Japanese know that their ancestors caused a lot of pain and teach them that their army was a disgrace during war time.

Panzermahn
Member
Posts: 3639
Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 04:51
Location: Malaysia

#59

Post by Panzermahn » 30 Jul 2005, 16:02

good interesting story Panzermahn. I know not all Japanees are like that, but most in the army were savages as their offices told them to be ruthless to the enemy e.g The officers made all soldiers do bayonet practice on the Chinese POWS to make them more 'braver' in battle. I know one story that when the Nanking massacre was happening, it was broadcasted in the west and even the Nazis were horrified what the Japanese were doing. A Nazi John Rabe who set up the safety zones even wrote a letter to Hitler to convice them to stop the slaughter, when nothing was being done Rabe went to Nanking with a handful of other westeners and saved a lot of Chinese people.

Though Id respect the Japanese a lot more if they get rid of those war shrines and compensate the victims for instance the comfort women, suviving victims or family members. Not only do the Japanese deny the massacre, they havent compensated these victims and they pray for the murderers in the shrine. Their apologises are fony as they claimed they have apologised 17 times, but then they go to the shrine and pray for them so of course they dont mean the apologises. But I doubt they'd apologise fully now as it has been about 60 years, but the main thing we shouldnt forget the victims and we should make the Japanese know that their ancestors caused a lot of pain and teach them that their army was a disgrace during war time.
Well said. I full agreed

Regards
Panzermahn

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002, 14:18
Location: Australia

#60

Post by Peter H » 30 Jul 2005, 16:30

They... seems to infer a collective response on the Japanese people that has not yet been established by anyone in the discussions so far.

I agree that while Japan has been limited in compensation to the victims of the war,its aid to other Asian countries post-1945 might be seen as a face-saving response to get around this dilemma.Which nation donated the largest amount to the Tsunami disaster fund?

Interesting that Communist China also refused Japanese compensation approaches in the 1960s.

Post Reply

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”