Jewish women used in Wehrmacht brothels?

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David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 03 Jul 2004 03:36

AussieTiger -- Can you provide some proof, or not?

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Wolfensteiner
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Post by Wolfensteiner » 06 Jul 2004 12:06

yes, the mans name was Erik Dorf, he was the assistant to heydrich for a while, what do you want me to do quote the sentence?

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Post by David Thompson » 06 Jul 2004 12:35

That would be helpful, along with the name of the book in which the claim appeared.

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Beppo Schmidt
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Post by Beppo Schmidt » 06 Jul 2004 20:35

yes, the mans name was Erik Dorf, he was the assistant to heydrich for a while, what do you want me to do quote the sentence?
Umm...sorry Aussie, but that's from the novel Holocaust by Gerald Green, and Erik Dorf is a fictional character.

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Post by David Thompson » 06 Jul 2004 23:43

Is that true, Aussie Tiger? You got the information from a novel?

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Wolfensteiner
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Post by Wolfensteiner » 07 Jul 2004 00:36

the holocaust is non fiction... are you sure about that beppo? yes it is a novel where a diary is published...

i dont get it with you guys... why do you take this so serious i share some information that i thought was factual and its like this big serious scandal..

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Post by David Thompson » 07 Jul 2004 00:44

Aussie Tiger -- You asked:
the holocaust is non fiction... are you sure about that beppo?
Beppo didn't say that, you did -- and you mischaracterized what Beppo did say. Take your clown act somewhere down the road. We're not interested in it here.

You also said:
yes it is a novel where a diary is published... i dont get it with you guys... why do you take this so serious i share some information that i thought was factual and its like this big serious scandal..
This is a research section of the forum. Posting supposedly factual claims you actually found in works of fiction, and distorting the words of other posters undercuts the purpose of historical research and having informed discussions. We don't tolerate that sort of thing here. Any further posts from you which do not comply with the rules of this section of the forum will be deleted without warning.

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Beppo Schmidt
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Post by Beppo Schmidt » 07 Jul 2004 03:14

yes it is a novel where a diary is published...
A fictional novel which uses the fictional diary of a fictional SS officer named Erik Dorf to show the Nazi side of the Holocaust. He is an invented character who is shown as being an assistant to Heydrich, giving the reader a view into the inner workings of the SS, just as the fictional Jew Rudi Weiss is used to show the Jewish side. They are not meant to be real people, they are characters who are inserted into historical situations with historical figures to represent a certain perspective.

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Post by David Thompson » 07 Jul 2004 03:26

That sort of thing belongs in The Lounge -- not here. We've got enough people trying to make fiction a fact.

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Beppo Schmidt
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Post by Beppo Schmidt » 07 Jul 2004 03:28

We've got enough people trying to make fiction a fact.


And unfortunately some who attempt to make fact into fiction :(

(don't get mad Aussie, that wasn't directed particularly at you)

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Further to this Thread

Post by icat01 » 28 Dec 2005 18:35

I came across this paper with footnotes and sources. Rather interesting I think.

Women's Sexuality in WWII Concentration Camps:
... Tool for Survival ... Tool for Oppresion.
An Oral History Project for UC Berkeley's English 1B, Section 7
By Johanna Micaela Jacobsen

Here is the link: http://www.scils.rutgers.edu/~favretto/ ... etext.html

Fortunately some subjects will not go away!

michael mills
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Post by michael mills » 29 Dec 2005 00:13

Most survivor narratives that I have read describe sexual relations between male and female prisoners, rather than between female prisoners and male guards.

According to those accounts, certain female prisoners tried to establish liaisons with male prisoners belonging to the privileged group, as a means of securing their own survival. As the "gilrfriends" of privileged male prisoners, such women gained access to more food, better clothing, sometimes even cosmetics, and were able to retain their hair and cultivate a more feminine appearance.

Sexual liaisons with German camp staff appear to have been extremely rare, according to the survivor accounts. There were very strong inhibitions against any sort of sexual contact between staff and prisoners, including the severe penalties for "race defilement".

Furthermore, the great majority of female prisoners must have appeared sexually unattractive to the guards, due to their being severely emaciated, dirty and smelly, as a result of the conditions of life in the camps.

The camp staff and privileged prisoners had an outlet for their sexual aggression through the camp brothels, which were staffed by professional sex workers, mainly German women, who had been sentenced to imprisonment in concentration camps as so-called "anti-socials". For the camp staff there was also the possibility of establishing liaisons with women of easy virtue in nearby towns.

Contrary to a certain feminist view, the vast majority of men (including concentration camp guards) have no desire to perform sexual acts with dirty, emaciated female prisoners purely for the purpose of humiliating them. Men desire to engage in sexual activity with women who look attractive and at least give an appearance of willingness and interest.

The normal reaction of camp staff to the sight of degraded prisoners was a feeling of revulsion and disgust, which of course made it easier for them to regard those prisoners as sub-human and to treat them with a callous brutality. Feelings of revulsion and disgust are the very opposite of feelings of sexual desire and arousal, and thus it is extremely unlikely that male camp staff felt any sort of physical attraction to the average female prisoner.

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iwh
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Post by iwh » 29 Dec 2005 17:10

michael mills wrote:The normal reaction of camp staff to the sight of degraded prisoners was a feeling of revulsion and disgust, which of course made it easier for them to regard those prisoners as sub-human and to treat them with a callous brutality. Feelings of revulsion and disgust are the very opposite of feelings of sexual desire and arousal, and thus it is extremely unlikely that male camp staff felt any sort of physical attraction to the average female prisoner.
And yet there are many examples of rapes carried out by members of the SS in Auschwitz itself. According to Laurence Rees in his book "Auschwitz, The Nazis and the Final Solution" many rapes were carried out in "Canada" the area where jewish belongings were sorted out. The women there were better fed, were allowed to keep their hair and were allowed showers.
Once a girl from Bratislava was taking a shower. She was a pretty woman, not skinny. An SS man came to her and misused her in the shower- he raped her. The SS man responsible was subsequently transferred out of "Canada" but escaped further punishment.
There was evidence of rape at a part of Birkenau known as the "family camp", where about 18,000 men, women and children were kept for propaganda purposes. They wrote letters and cards saying how well they were treated etc etc. Also on page 237 of Reece's book were have the following account:
Ruth Elias was one of the inmates living in the woman only barracks of the "family camp". She twice witnessed drunken SS men visiting the barracks and selecting women to take away: "The girls came back crying- they had been raped. They were in a terrible state."
Infact corruption was quite widespread in Auschwitz, and in 1943 SS Obersturmfuhrer Konrad Morgen arrived on the scene to try to improve the situation. What he found, amongst many other examples of corruption was (p245)
....evidence not only of financial corruption but also of sexual wrong doing..
The infamous brothel at Auschwitz was set up for the more privilaged prisoners of Auschwitz 1, the Polish political prisoners for example. Auschwitz was not the only camp to provide these services...4 other concentration camps did. Reece in his book does not say if the prostitutes were jewish, but he does say that they all came mainly from Birkenau, so there is a good probability that some, if not all, were. Needless to say, none of the jewish inmates of Auschwitz were allowed anywhere near the brothel. They were at the bottom of the prisoner hierarchy.

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LilliMarlene
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Re: Jewish women used in Wehrmacht brothels?

Post by LilliMarlene » 13 Sep 2010 17:59

Elie Wiesel speaks of a woman used in a concentration camp brothel in one of his books. I believe it is "The Accident." Also, rape is not sex, it is an act of violence. A woman's attractiveness isn't always a factor. Yes, I believe Jewish women and other prisoners were raped in concentration camps. I have read several accounts of it, including one taking place at Auschwitz. I do not remember the perpetrators name or exact rank, but he was under Hoess at Auschwitz. I believe his first name was Johannes, and he was said to be a serial rapist of Jewish women. Sexual violence is often a part of war, sadly. Look at war zones today....
"Wie einst, Lilli Marlene...."

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Re: Jewish women used in Wehrmacht brothels?

Post by kiseli » 13 Sep 2010 19:09

In the Wikipedia article Sexual enslavement by Nazi Germany in World War II,
hotels/brothels were known as German Soldier's Houses DSH, or in German
Militärbordelle or Wehrmachtsbordell. It is estimated that a minimum of 34,140 women
from occupied states were forced to work as prostitutes during the Third Reich. In most
cases, especially in the East, the women were forced to serve as prostitutes after being
caught at random on the streets in Łapankas (Nazi German military kidnapping raids
against civilians in Poland).
The authors (Thomas Gaevert & Martin Hilbert) of a 2004 German documentary: Frauen
als Beute: Wehrmacht und Prostitution - über den Missbrauch von Frauen in deutschen
Militärbordellen (Women as Booty: Wehrmacht and Prostitution...) address the rape
victims of German Wehrmacht Brothels. Many women remained silent about their
experiences after the end of the war.

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