(UK+ US) 1945 rape rating (estimated)

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Aleksei22
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(UK+ US) 1945 rape rating (estimated)

Post by Aleksei22 » 07 Feb 2004 17:32

(UK+ US) 1945 rape rating (estimated)

Hello,

Does Anybody knows REALLY documented DATA
assosiated with count of german woman raping by UK&US troops
in 1944-1946 ?

Please, find below draft estimation, based on

http://www.notinourname.net/troops/rape ... 5jan04.htm

and

DOD’s 2003 report (see published pdf file )

______________________EXTRACT____________________
the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories. Pentagon bureaucrats calculate that it would require at least $113.2 billion to replace just the foreign bases -- surely far too low a figure but still larger than the gross domestic product of most countries -- and an estimated $591,519.8 million to replace all of them. The military high command deploys to our overseas bases some 253,288 uniformed personnel, plus an equal number of dependents and Department of Defense civilian officials, and employs an additional 44,446 locally hired foreigners. The Pentagon claims that these bases contain 44,870 barracks, hangars, hospitals, and other buildings, which it owns, and that it leases 4,844 more.
The military prefers bases that resemble small fundamentalist towns in the Bible Belt rather than the big population centers of the United States. For example, even though more than 100,000 women live on our overseas bases -- including women in the services, spouses, and relatives of military personnel -- obtaining an abortion at a local military hospital is prohibited. Since there are some 14,000 sexual assaults or attempted sexual assaults each year in the military, women who become pregnant overseas and want an abortion have no choice but to try the local economy, which cannot be either easy or pleasant in Baghdad or other parts of our empire these days.
_____________________END______________________



So we have: -

2003
_______________

253.288 US overseas bases uniformed personnel => raped 14.000

Raping per personnel per year (RPPPY) => 14000/253288 = 0.05527

Typical RRI (rape reported index) => from 37/11 up to 80/11 ( from 3.36 up to 7.3)

So, corrected

RPPPY_corr = 0.005528 * (from 3.36 up to 7.3 ) => from 0.01857 up to 0.040734


1944-1946
_______________________

more then 6.000.000 overseas (Europe) uniformed personnel
(totaly – 11.000.000 USA uniformed personnel in 1945 )



Estemated rape count => 6000000 * 2*( from 0.01857 up to 0.040734 );

RESULT


Totally Raped (est.) from 222.800 up to 488.800

Aleksei22
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Sorry, ERROR ( x10 needed )

Post by Aleksei22 » 07 Feb 2004 17:55

Totally Raped (est.) from 2.228.000 up to 4.888.000

xcalibur
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Post by xcalibur » 07 Feb 2004 18:05

And this means what?

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 07 Feb 2004 18:11

Aleksei22 -- Your estimate is based on a series of false analogies. Here are some of the methodological problems with your estimate:

An attempted sexual assault is not the same thing as a sexual assault.

A sexual assault is not the same thing as a rape.

The experiences of women serving in US armed forces are not the same as the experiences of foreign civilians.

The crime statistics of today are not the same as those from different time periods.

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 07 Feb 2004 18:19

__________________________________

Aleksei22 -- Your estimate is based on a series of false analogies. Here are some of the methodological problems with your estimate:

An attempted sexual assault is not the same thing as a sexual assault.

A sexual assault is not the same thing as a rape.

The experiences of women serving in US armed forces are not the same as the experiences of foreign civilians.

The crime statistics of today are not the same as those from different time periods.
______________________________________

Hello, David

I can agree and disagree with your comments.

But - give us your own estimate. I think that is the best.


Thank you.

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 07 Feb 2004 18:23

Hello, xcalibur

________________
And this means what?
_________________



That is data for the next A.Beavor's book. I think so ...

May I ?

Thank you.

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 07 Feb 2004 18:59

Aleksei22 -- You said:
I can agree and disagree with your comments.

But - give us your own estimate. I think that is the best.
I don't have an estimate. In the absence of any showing that US and UK governments or military commanders condoned, coddled or overlooked rapists, I don't consider the rapes a "war crime." They are just ordinary crimes, committed by individuals during a time of war.

For the readers -- This subject was extensively discussed in the thread "Allied Rapists," at:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=30923

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 08 Feb 2004 09:35

Hello, David

_____________________

I don't have an estimate. In the absence of any showing that US and UK governments or military
commanders condoned, coddled or overlooked rapists, I don't consider the rapes a "war crime."
They are just ordinary crimes, committed by individuals during a time of war.
_____________________



Do you know a famous joke told by well known American US army general in 1946 ? ( he was responsible for logistics in (UK+US)'s occupation zone in Germany)

He declared (in 1946) the following: -

If present S-Quo [raping tradition] will proceed ahead - American government whould't need to risk American's guys in the NEXT WW-III. Solely things we should to do - to organize uninterrupted delivery-rotes for weapons - and regular uniform supply-chain to our future "self-made" military personnel's in Europe.

Do you know the name of that brave American General?

Thank you.

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 08 Feb 2004 16:22

Aleksei22 -- You asked:
Do you know the name of that brave American General?
No. I've never heard the story or joke in reference to rapes. I have heard of remarks like that on the subject of "fraternization." Needless to say, "fraternization" (consensual sexual relations between soldiers and foreign civilians) and rape aren't the same thing.

Since you have not established the existence of extensive rapes in connection with the Anglo-American armed forces, it is strange to read your reference to a "raping tradition" in connection with the general's remark. What is your proof that the remark or joke had anything to do with a supposed "raping tradition?"

Aleksei22
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GANG-RAPING in ( UK + US ) occupation ZONE

Post by Aleksei22 » 23 Feb 2004 18:05

Hello, All

Does anybody have ANY SHAEF ‘s docs stamped as
“confidential docs” or "Press Censors' Guidance"
dealing with PR and “cover”
operations of ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE staff (UK&US troops )
assosiated with mass-raping in (UK + US) occupation
zone in France, Germany , etc .

Thank you.
_______________________________________________________

[An off-topic annex to this post on the subject of the bombing of Dresden was removed and given a thread of its own by the moderator -- DT]

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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 18:46

The problem the US had was all of the GI's getting married to German civilians. Rape was not an issue as far as I have read. Fraternization was so bad at one point that they wanted to charge GI's with criminal charges, however the fact was that it was so wide spread it was impossible to stop. If rape occurred in these conditions than the man was a criminal. He would have raped no matter where he was. I get the feeling that talking about Beevor someone is trying to imply that the Red Army was not the only one guilty of such shameful crimes as raping every women in sight. The UK and US troops did not do this on any scale worth speaking of, mostly criminals.

Also your comment about the General and "S'qou [raping tradition]" whatever that is, comes from the fraternization. There is no raping tradition in the US or UK military that I know of.

As it was well known Aleksei, American troops were overpaid, oversexed and over here. There was no need for large scale rapes. Many ended up married to German women.

As David already pointed out your numbers are incorrect. Also 6 million rapes in WWII? Where did you come up with that insane number? 14,000 alleged rapes and assaults? Sexual Assault in the US army could be something as simple as pinching a butt.

Are you trying to say the US/UK were as bad as the Red Army and its crimes?

JohnRayTaylor
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Post by JohnRayTaylor » 23 Feb 2004 18:56

Caldric are you saying US troops never committed a war crime?

JohnRayTaylor

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 19:05

JohnRayTaylor wrote:Caldric are you saying US troops never committed a war crime?

JohnRayTaylor
JohnRayTaylor is that what I said? I don't think it is but maybe you can point it out for me.

Every Army has committed crimes. Did the US Rape German woman on such a scale that it could be considered in the realm of War Crimes? I think not, it was also dealt with harshly if the person was actually ever brought before a tribunal. I am not silly enough to think that some US troops did not rape in Europe, on individual levels. Hell there were cases of rape in the UK while they were there. But it was never in any evidence I have seen condoned or even slightly encouraged by the US Command.

I took the numbers out since his do not make much sense anyway.

As far as Iraq goes women do not belong in combat units period. This is only one of the issues.

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 23 Feb 2004 19:12

Hello, Caldric

Are you trying to say the Red Army was as bad as the UK&US Army and its crimes?

Do you have DIRECT infor from german's, french (etc) girls ?


______________________________________
Sexual Assault in the US army could be
something as simple as pinching a butt.
_____________________________________

WOW,WOW,WOW does it possible to make american girls pregnant by simple "pinching a butt" ?

xcalibur
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Post by xcalibur » 23 Feb 2004 19:18

Aleksei22 wrote:Hello, Caldric

Are you trying to say the Red Army was as bad as the UK&US Army and its crimes?

Do you have DIRECT infor from german's, french (etc) girls ?


______________________________________
Sexual Assault in the US army could be
something as simple as pinching a butt.
_____________________________________

WOW,WOW,WOW does it possible to make american girls pregnant by simple "pinching a butt" ?
No but it might get them thinking in that direction :wink:

Anyway, doesn't anyone have figures for rapes reported in the Anglo-American occupations zones? Verifiable figures, that is?

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