(UK+ US) 1945 rape rating (estimated)

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Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 19:20

Aleksei22 wrote:Hello, Caldric

Are you trying to say the Red Army was as bad as the UK&US Army and its crimes?

Do you have DIRECT infor from german's, french (etc) girls ?


______________________________________
Sexual Assault in the US army could be
something as simple as pinching a butt.
_____________________________________

WOW,WOW,WOW does it possible to make american girls pregnant by simple "pinching a butt" ?
No but is it possible that all these young people in one area far from home with raging hormones must all be rape victims? Do you remember being 19? Now add 19 and both sexes and a war zone far from home and what do you have? A great deal of sexual contact and that leads to pregnancy.

There is no doubt some are raped to say otherwise would be a crime itself, as far as I know the military is very harsh on such acts. In fact I think rape is still a capital offense in the US military laws. It is sexual assault to pinch a butt.

Which means what David Thompson already stated, not all SA is rape.
Last edited by Caldric on 23 Feb 2004 19:22, edited 1 time in total.

JohnRayTaylor
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Post by JohnRayTaylor » 23 Feb 2004 19:21

Caldric on the rapes I will agree with you, But as far as saying the U.S. has never committed wars on level the Soviets did you should look back in our history and rethink what you have said about U.S. troops and thier war crimes.

JohnRayTaylor

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 19:23

JohnRayTaylor wrote:Caldric on the rapes I will agree with you, But as far as saying the U.S. has never committed wars on level the Soviets did you should look back in our history and rethink what you have said about U.S. troops and thier war crimes.

JohnRayTaylor
Well please tell me where the US acted such as the Red Army in WWII Germany and Central Europe.

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Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 23 Feb 2004 19:24

Aleksei22 wrote:Hello, Caldric

Are you trying to say the Red Army was as bad as the UK&US Army and its crimes?
Man, first JohnRay, now you... Is it that you are not reading Caldric's posts, or what? He is saying that Red Army was a lot worse than US/UK armies ever were (which is true, I hate to admit)



Aleksei22 wrote:______________________________________
Sexual Assault in the US army could be
something as simple as pinching a butt.
_____________________________________

WOW,WOW,WOW does it possible to make american girls pregnant by simple "pinching a butt" ?
Again, I think you misunderstand: "in the US army" here means that these are the standard applied to US soldiers, not that the butts being pinched belong to American girls.

JohnRayTaylor
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Post by JohnRayTaylor » 23 Feb 2004 19:32

Caldric in WWII US troops may not have been as bad as Soviet troops but from 1945 to 1975 in Southeast they were. I wont bring up the Indian Wars.

JohnRayTaylor

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Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 23 Feb 2004 19:34

JR, that may be true, but we are not talking about Indian Wars here, are we?

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Post by xcalibur » 23 Feb 2004 19:45

Article 120 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice states:
Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or other such punishment as a court-martial may direct
Last edited by xcalibur on 23 Feb 2004 19:47, edited 1 time in total.

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 23 Feb 2004 19:46

Hello,


________________________________________________
He is saying that Red Army was a lot worse than US/UK armies
ever were (which is true, I hate to admit)
____________________________________________________


Really ???????

SomeOne told you that to say?

or

May be, you have seen all of "that" EVER WERE ?


Thank you.

JohnRayTaylor
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Post by JohnRayTaylor » 23 Feb 2004 19:48

Vadim I believe Caldric said US troops never acted as bad as soviet troops. And no I am not going to go into the Indian thing. I just wanted Caldric to clarify what he was saying about US troops and the war crimes they have committed. That is all.

JohnRayTaylor

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 23 Feb 2004 19:49

Hello,


_____________________
" ......as the court-martial may direct "
__________________________________________


Whad did this "may direct" means from

a) - legal point of view

b) - real life "condition" ( in 1944-1945 )

Thank you,

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 19:49

JohnRayTaylor wrote:Caldric in WWII US troops may not have been as bad as Soviet troops but from 1945 to 1975 in Southeast they were. I wont bring up the Indian Wars.

JohnRayTaylor
You think they were? I do not know I do know there were some horrible crimes committed in Korea by US and US allied forces ROK. Some of which we showed on the history channel not long ago about the murder of refugees and summary execution of "accused" communist. Civil War is brutal though I think we all know that well enough. But we are talking about WWII for the most part. Each era in history has its moral level and a legal guideline for what is criminal. What an Army did in 1800 would be considered the norm to people of that day but we may be shocked by it. It must be kept it in perspective.

Such as the strategic bombing campaign, in a court of morals it may be guilty of all kinds of crimes. However, fortunately we live in a time were the court of law is suppose to prevail. In the court of law strategic bombing was allowable and was not criminal. The problem is many people try to use their moral court to find it as a crime. Well they are different events in each court, the reason we need the court of law is so it does not vary, our courts of morals that everyone has in their minds is very different depending on who is judging the case. I hope that makes sense to you. A Policemen who uses deadly force is judged by many people in their own court of morals, but it only matters what the court of law says because in theory it does not vary in handing out justice unlike moral court.

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 19:54

JohnRayTaylor wrote:Vadim I believe Caldric said US troops never acted as bad as soviet troops. And no I am not going to go into the Indian thing. I just wanted Caldric to clarify what he was saying about US troops and the war crimes they have committed. That is all.

JohnRayTaylor
John the topic of this thread was rape. When I post in this thread unless I say otherwise the topic is rape now show me where in 1945 the US/UK was equal to the Red Army in rape and crimes against civilian populations? I still do not see where the US troops committed crimes equal to the Rape of Europe. Even in Korea where US troops in horrible conditions perhaps much like the Red Army in WWII committed horrible crimes. Vietnam does not even compare to WWII so do not start with the myths of US crimes in Vietnam, people need to not watch Platoon and its lying director.

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Post by xcalibur » 23 Feb 2004 19:56

Aleksei22 wrote:Hello,


_____________________
" ......as the court-martial may direct "
__________________________________________


Whad did this "may direct" means from

a) - legal point of view

b) - real life "condition" ( in 1944-1945 )

Thank you,
From a legal point of view, ie that there may be circumstances about a particular case which might mitigate the imposition of the death penalty. In short, the individual court-martial is given latitude to impose as harsh a sentence as they feel the case requires.

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Post by JohnRayTaylor » 23 Feb 2004 19:59

Does My Lai or op. phoenix ring a bell Caldric. And as I have already stateed I agree with you on the rapes. Thats a dead issue I wanted to know if you meant US troops never committed acts as bad as the soviets. Which you keep sidestepping.

JRT

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Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 23 Feb 2004 20:02

Aleksei22 wrote:Hello,


________________________________________________
He is saying that Red Army was a lot worse than US/UK armies
ever were (which is true, I hate to admit)
____________________________________________________


Really ???????

SomeOne told you that to say?

or

May be, you have seen all of "that" EVER WERE ?


Thank you.
No, moi drug, I grew up in the same country as you, and here in the US I have been working with the elderly for a number of years, so I had a chance to interact with veterans of many wars and armies. As a teenager in Russia and as a grown man here in the US, I have heard plenty of stories from the Soviet veterans about what went on in East Prussia and I dont think any of them had any reason ti lie (besides all the stories were very similar). These are the people that actually were there, Aleksei. Another thing is that I think what they did was jusitifed by what was done to their land and families (many veterans said the same thing essentially: "we marched through devastated Belorussia and saw heaps of bodies and burned villages; how else were we supposed to react when we reached German territory??")
Last edited by Vadim on 23 Feb 2004 20:12, edited 1 time in total.

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