(UK+ US) 1945 rape rating (estimated)

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 20:04

JohnRayTaylor wrote:Does My Lai or op. phoenix ring a bell Caldric. And as I have already stateed I agree with you on the rapes. Thats a dead issue I wanted to know if you meant US troops never committed acts as bad as the soviets. Which you keep sidestepping.

JRT
No the US troops have never committed crimes equal to the Red Army, that should be clear enough for you.

My Lai was a crime period, the court of law did not fail either it found the commander guilty of war crimes and sentenced him to hard labor for life in prison. Regardless that some president pardoned him of the crime or whatever the court did not fail only the moral court failed as it always does. The president at the time took it upon himself to over rule the laws and in so doing was wrong in my opinion. However I do not think My Lai even is a shadow of Prussia.

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Post by David Thompson » 23 Feb 2004 20:05

(1) Frivolous and/ or immature comments about rape are not welcome here.

(2) According to J. Robert Lilly, who has a new book out, there were 17,080 cases of rape alleged against members of the American armed forces in Great Britain, France and Germany between 1942 and 1945, all of which involved courts-martial. The topic is covered in these threads:

Allied rapists
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=30923

Rape by other allied forces in Europe during WWII
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=33753

Aleksei22 -- Personal insults and taunts are forbidden. If you continue I will start deleting your posts wholesale or lock this thread. This is a research section of the forum, not a "Beavis and Butthead" episode.
Last edited by David Thompson on 23 Feb 2004 20:09, edited 1 time in total.

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 20:08

Vadim wrote: These are the people that actually were there, Aleksei. Another thing is that I think what they did was jusitifed by what was done to their land and families (many veterans said the same thing essentially: "we marched through devastated Belorussia and saw heaps of bodies and bruned villages; how else were we supposed to react when we reached German territory??")
That is the fact Vadim, I have stated many times that if I were in an Army such as the Red Army in WWII and I seen what the Germans did to my people I would do little different then they did. If the Germans invaded the US and pushed us up to the Rockies and raped, murdered, burned, pillaged, executed whole populations when I entered Germany I would have such hatred in my soul I doubt I would be any better. I can not judge these men on that level.

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 20:11

David Thompson wrote:(1) Frivolous and/ or immature comments about rape are not welcome here.

(2) According to J. Robert Lilly, who has a new book out, there were 17,080 cases of rape alleged against members of the American armed forces in Great Britain, France and Germany between 1942 and 1945, all of which involved courts-martial. The topic is covered in these threads:

Allied rapists
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=30923

Rape by other allied forces in Europe during WWII
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=33753
David I was not trying to sound immature in my example. I was trying to honestly point out that Sexual Assault and Rape can be vastly different. Sexual assault can be as simple as pinching a lady/man on the rear end and they taking offense and reporting it. Rape in general is considered forcing another person to have sexual intercourse against their will. Rape is not a joking issue, it destroys the persons confidence and rapes their minds and souls also. I would never joke about it.

JohnRayTaylor
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Post by JohnRayTaylor » 23 Feb 2004 20:18

Last time Caldric, What we did in Southeast from 1945 to 1975 was as bad as what the Soviets did in WWII there is no changing the fact. US troops did committed on aday basis (not sure spell right) acts of war crimes. From my own father ( he was with the 23rd Inf.) I heard what they did to the Vietnamese civs and pows. So dont sit there and hand me a bunch of bs about what us troops did or didnt do. My Lai was only one that got covered. There were many more that never did get covered.
And I am done.

JRT

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 23 Feb 2004 20:21

Hello,

______________________________________
As a teenager in Russia and as a grown man here in the US, I have heard plenty of stories from the Soviet veterans about what went on in East Prussia and I dont think any of them had any reason ti lie (besides all the stories were very similar). These are the people that actually were there, Aleksei.
________________________________________


My grandfather was in East Prussia, then he was in Far-East front ( Kwantun-army front ).

And what ?

Other my relatives lived in Leningrad Blokade ( 1941-1944).

And what ?

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Penn44
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Post by Penn44 » 23 Feb 2004 20:43

xcalibur wrote:Article 120 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice states:
Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or other such punishment as a court-martial may direct
In World War II, the US military was subject to the Articles of War, not the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). However, in WWII, the US could put a service member to death for rape.


Penn44

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Vadim
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and what??

Post by Vadim » 23 Feb 2004 21:07

Aleksei, you are arguing like bazarnaya baba. My post was in response to you saying "SomeOne told you that to say?" I explained where I heard these stories. What does your relatives blocade experiences have to do with any of this? "And what?" indeed... :roll:

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Post by David Thompson » 23 Feb 2004 22:09

Caldric -- Your point was well-taken, and my remark was not directed against you.

The posts on the subject of the execution of SS POWs at Dachau now have a thread of their own at:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43919

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 24 Feb 2004 09:58

Aleksei22,

Use of anonymous proxies are not allowed, so don't use them again while accessing the forum.

/Marcus

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 24 Feb 2004 14:03

Hello, Vadim


______________________________
Aleksei, you are arguing like bazarnaya baba.
_________________________________________


My dear Vadim, I am very sorry, but I cannt understand
what you wanted to say me in that passage.
May be some one are able to "translate" it to me ?



________________________________
My post was in response to you saying
"SomeOne told you that to say?" I explained
where I heard these stories. What does your
relatives blocade experiences have to do with
any of this? "And what?" indeed...
________________________________





My answer was absolutely clear, as I told you that
my grandfahter was in East Prussia. That is why I need to say
you that my own estimate validity of your "evidence"
expressed by you as ……
___________________________________
No, moi drug, I grew up in the same country as
you, and here in the US I have been working with
the elderly for a number of years, so I had a chance
to interact with veterans of many wars and armies.
As a teenager in Russia and as a grown man here
in the US, I have heard plenty of stories from the
Soviet veterans about what went on in East Prussia
and I dont think any of them had any reason ti lie
(besides all the stories were very similar). These
are the people that actually were there, Aleksei…..
______________________________________

- is a bit lower than "total weight of inks" you have used to
write it down.

Thank you,

PS. - BTW, Vadim, you wrote " I grew up in the same country as
You … " HMMMMM, May I ask you simple question ?

Are you a jew, Vadim ?

Thank you,






____________________________________________
Aleksei22,

Use of anonymous proxies are not allowed,
so don't use them again while accessing the forum.

/Marcus
______________________________________

Hello, Marcus

Is it mean that anonymous proxies ARE illegal due to
Criminal code of your country ?

Does it mean that anyone who use it - ARE CRIMINAL ?

Thank you,

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 24 Feb 2004 14:20

Aleksei22 wrote:Is it mean that anonymous proxies ARE illegal due to
Criminal code of your country ?
Does it mean that anyone who use it - ARE CRIMINAL ?
No, they are not illegal, their use is however in violation of the guidelines in this forum.

/Marcus

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Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 24 Feb 2004 17:25

Aleksei, love your English, I used to speak English like that too many years ago... :D
Aleksei22 wrote:My answer was absolutely clear, as I told you that
my grandfahter was in East Prussia. That is why I need to say
you that my own estimate validity of your "evidence"
expressed by you as ……
___________________________________
No, moi drug, I grew up in the same country as
you, and here in the US I have been working with
the elderly for a number of years, so I had a chance
to interact with veterans of many wars and armies.
As a teenager in Russia and as a grown man here
in the US, I have heard plenty of stories from the
Soviet veterans about what went on in East Prussia
and I dont think any of them had any reason ti lie
(besides all the stories were very similar). These
are the people that actually were there, Aleksei…..
______________________________________

- is a bit lower than "total weight of inks" you have used to
write it down
"Total weight of inks"... Thats cute, except I did not write it down, I typed it. So no ink involved... :D
Aleksei22 wrote:BTW, Vadim, you wrote " I grew up in the same country as
You … " HMMMMM, May I ask you simple question ?

Are you a jew, Vadim ?
Yes, I am. I dont know how old you are, but when I said "same country", I was talking about the USSR. I left in 1989.

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 24 Feb 2004 22:29

Hello, Wadim

___________________________
Aleksei, love your English, I used to
speak English like that too many years ago...
___________________________________



OK, Wadim, have a seat, drink a tekila, relax.
And - love it on, and on, and on .


_____________________________
"Total weight of inks"... Thats cute,
except I did not write it down, I typed it.
So no ink involved..
_________________________________



Dear Wadim, I love your answer.
Translation: - it means that ... you have used 0 ( zero ink ).
So, Now you can imagine validity RATING
for your " historical evidence". - Below ZERO-LEVEL.
Thank you for assistance.



_____________________________________________
Are you a jew, Vadim ?
Yes, I am. I dont know how old you are,
but when I said "same country", I was talking about the USSR.
I left in 1989.
_______________________________________



Oh, yeaaa. Jackson-Venik Cargo express.
( Moscow->Vienn'a->tel-A-viv->USA)
Yes, its an insult, real insult.



So, may I ask you my last Q. ?
May I ask your 2-nd and 3-rd name ?


Wadim Il'ich Erenburg ?

Is't ?



http://hronos.km.ru/organ/eak.html

http://hronos.km.ru/biograf/erenburg.html

http://www.kackad.com/article.asp?article=170


Îäíî èç ñòèõîòâîðåíèé 1942 ã. Ýðåíáóðã, ðåäêî
äàâàâøèé çàãîëîâêè ñâîèì ïîýòè÷åñêèì
ïðîèçâåäåíèÿì, íàçâàë "Óáåé!" Îíî íà÷èíàëîñü ñëîâàìè:

ÊàÊ êðîâü â âèñêå òâîåì ñòó÷èò,
Êàê ãîä â êðîâè, êàê ñ÷åò îáèä,
Êàê ãîðåì ïüÿí è áåç âèíà
È êàê áîëüøàÿ òèøèíà,
×òî ïîñëå ïóëü è ïîñëå ìèí,
È â ñòî ïóäîâ, íà ìèã îäèí,
Êàê ýòà æèçíü - íå åøü, íå ïåé
È íå äûøè - îäíî: óáåé!

Cëîâîì "óáåé" ñòèõîòâîðåíèå è çàâåðøàëîñü. È ýòî,
äåéñòâèòåëüíî, áûë ãëàâíûé âíóòðåííèé ñìûñë âñåãî
òâîð÷åñòâà Ýðåíáóðãà ïåðèîäà âîéíû.  1942 ã.
âûøëè â ñâåò äâà ñáîðíèêà åãî ñòàòåé, îáà îíè íàçûâàëèñü
"Óáåé íåìöà". Òå æå ïðèçûâû çâó÷àëè â àðìåéñêèõ
ëèñòîâêàõ, ñî÷èíåííûõ ïèñàòåëåì.  îäíîé èç íèõ
áûëî ñêàçàíî: "Íåìöû ðâóòñÿ âïåðåä. Îíè
òîðîïÿòñÿ. Çà èõ ñïèíîé - ïðèçðàê ðàñïëàòû.
Íåìöåâ íóæíî îñòàíîâèòü. Èõ íåîáõîäèìî ïåðåáèòü".
Íå ñëó÷àéíî, ôàìèëèþ Ýðåíáóðãà Ãåááåëüñ
íàçûâàë â ÷èñëå òåõ, êîãî íåîáõîäèìî áóäåò
çàõâàòèòü è êàçíèòü â ïåðâóþ î÷åðåäü.
 âîåííîé ïóáëèöèñòèêå Ýðåíáóðãà åâðåéñêàÿ
òåìàòèêà çâó÷èò ïî äâóì îñíîâíûì íàïðàâëåíèÿì.
http://www.explan.ru/archive/2003/28/s2.htm


Good luck, my dear Wadim.


Pls, keep your tale stories for your own kidds.

Good luck //////////////////////////

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 24 Feb 2004 22:44

Aleksei22 -- Do not add personal remarks to posts in this section of the forum. I have already warned you
Personal insults and taunts are forbidden. If you continue I will start deleting your posts wholesale or lock this thread. This is a research section of the forum, not a "Beavis and Butthead" episode.
If you cannot or will not follow the rules here, get lost.

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