Treblinka I/II

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Scott Smith
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Re: Scott, you should...

Post by Scott Smith » 12 Mar 2002 07:23

Hans wrote: ...calm down. Rudolf's book is available online. It is also available in the library. I've read it online and in the library (and I was not prosecuted for doing so. Strange, what?) and I've read the book (Kogon et al.: Nationalsozialistische Massentötungen durch Giftgas) he has lied about in his book. This qualifies me in saying that Germar has lied in his book, I would say.

Scott, have you actual read the site I recommend?
I looked at the site. I was not particularly impressed. However, I have not read Kogon, et al.

Yes, Dissecting the Holocaust is available online, no thanks to the Bundestablishment. However, I am surprised that it is available in a German library. Do they start a dossier on you if you check it out? Anyway, if it is not actually "Banned in Germany" that would tend to be a bit misleading, I would say. I usually prefer to reserve the word LIE for more severe imbroglios.

In any case, whether Rudolf is a liar or not, it cannot be denied that Rudolf himself is "Banned in Germany." And this for Thoughtcrime!
Last edited by Scott Smith on 13 Mar 2002 22:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Roberto
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Treblinka I/II

Post by Roberto » 12 Mar 2002 10:24

Thorwald,

Give me your mailing address, and I'll send you a copy of the judgment.
My e-mail address [email protected].

Here's another document related to the Aktion Reinhard(t) killings:

"Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.

The former Gauleiter of Vienna, who is to carry this measure through, is doing it with considerable circumspection and according to a method that does not attract too much attention. A judgment is being visited upon the Jews that, while barbaric, is fully deserved by them. The prophesy which the Fuehrer made about them for having brought on a new world war is beginning to come true in a most terrible manner. One must not be sentimental in these matters. If we did not fight the Jews, they would destroy us. It's a life-and-death struggle between the Aryan race and the Jewish bacillus. No other government and no other regime would have the strength for such a global solution of this question. Here, too, the Fuehrer is the undismayed champion of a radical solution necessitated by conditions and therefore inexorable. Fortunately a whole series of possibilities presents itself for us in wartime that would be denied us in peacetime. We shall have to profit by this.

The ghettoes that will be emptied in the cities of the General Government now will be refilled with Jews thrown out of the Reich. This process is to be repeated from time to time. There is nothing funny in it for the Jews, and the fact that Jewry's representatives in England and America are today organizing and sponsoring the war against Germany must be paid for dearly by its representatives in Europe - and that's only right."


The above is a translation of Goebbels' diary entry of 27 March 1942, featured under the link

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goe ... 942-mar-27

Emphases are mine. The Gauleiter of Vienna whom Goebbels mentions as being the head of the operation is no other that Odilo Globocnik, the man whom Himmler put in charge of Aktion Reinhard(t). Globocnik had been Gauleiter of Vienna until 1939. Deportations to Belzec extermination camp had begun on 17 March 1942, ten days before this entry was written.

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Thorwald
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Re: Treblinka I/II

Post by Thorwald » 12 Mar 2002 12:14

medorjurgen wrote:Thorwald,

Give me your mailing address, and I'll send you a copy of the judgment.
My e-mail address [email protected].

Here's another document related to the Aktion Reinhard(t) killings:

"Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.

The former Gauleiter of Vienna, who is to carry this measure through, is doing it with considerable circumspection and according to a method that does not attract too much attention. A judgment is being visited upon the Jews that, while barbaric, is fully deserved by them. The prophesy which the Fuehrer made about them for having brought on a new world war is beginning to come true in a most terrible manner. One must not be sentimental in these matters. If we did not fight the Jews, they would destroy us. It's a life-and-death struggle between the Aryan race and the Jewish bacillus. No other government and no other regime would have the strength for such a global solution of this question. Here, too, the Fuehrer is the undismayed champion of a radical solution necessitated by conditions and therefore inexorable. Fortunately a whole series of possibilities presents itself for us in wartime that would be denied us in peacetime. We shall have to profit by this.

The ghettoes that will be emptied in the cities of the General Government now will be refilled with Jews thrown out of the Reich. This process is to be repeated from time to time. There is nothing funny in it for the Jews, and the fact that Jewry's representatives in England and America are today organizing and sponsoring the war against Germany must be paid for dearly by its representatives in Europe - and that's only right."


The above is a translation of Goebbels' diary entry of 27 March 1942, featured under the link

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goe ... 942-mar-27

Emphases are mine. The Gauleiter of Vienna whom Goebbels mentions as being the head of the operation is no other that Odilo Globocnik, the man whom Himmler put in charge of Aktion Reinhard(t). Globocnik had been Gauleiter of Vienna until 1939. Deportations to Belzec extermination camp had begun on 17 March 1942, ten days before this entry was written.
_____________________________________________________________

Thank you for this interesting quote, Roberto. You can contact me under : [email protected] ; I'm looking forward to see the mentioned documents.

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 22 Apr 2007 01:47

Talking about the extermination camp Treblinka, I have read that a wife of a German Officer was send there by error and she discovered that terrible camp and than was assasinated with her two children from order from Berlin to keep her silent. I am looking for the name of that German officer and if this story is really true?

Regards

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Eddy Marz
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Post by Eddy Marz » 22 Apr 2007 12:50

Benoît;
Contrary to vastly documented camps like Auschwitz, where a good many people (both nazis and deported) survived in order to tell the tale and provide proof, Aktion Reinhard camps have only begun to emerge in society's consciousness due to comparatively recent research (from the 60's onwards), but are still, even now, subject to different visions, depending on sources. Due to Christian Wirth's mind-boggling thoroughness, only a handful of people survived Aktion Reinhard, and apart from some SS testimonies at the various Belzec/Treblinka trials, and rare 'outside' observer's often muddled recollections, tales of 'individual tragedies' are scarcer. They would have needed to be propagated by surviving witnesses. You could try and look up trial transcripts on Treblinka, although I doubt you'd find them on the net. All the same I feel it would be arduous work with no guarantee of success.
Regards
Eddy

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Eddy Marz
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Post by Eddy Marz » 24 Apr 2007 11:07

Incidently, the photograph of 'Treblinka Station' (first post on page one of this topic), is Treblinka the village and has nothing to do with Camp Treblinka's arrival ramp.
Cheers
Eddy

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 25 Apr 2007 00:29

Eddy,

It's true that Auschwitz have been well documented contrary to Treblinka. Treblinka was probably the worst extermination camp of all, all the Jews of the Warsaw area perished there.

Regards
Last edited by Benoit Douville on 25 Apr 2007 23:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Eddy Marz
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Post by Eddy Marz » 25 Apr 2007 15:13

Benoît;
I tend to agree with you; to me anyway, the Aktion Reinhard camps in general are far more horrifying than Auschwitz. But I think that if you look up Belzec, you'll find that it may have been even worse than Treblinka. It was smaller but it was also the first of its kind and therefore the 'laboratory' where Christian Wirth experimented murder and deception until he came up with the right killing routine which would then be implemented in both Treblinka and Sobibor.
Regards
EM

michael mills
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Post by michael mills » 26 Apr 2007 03:49

Talking about the extermination camp Treblinka, I have read that a wife of a German Officer was send there by error and she discovered that terrible camp and than was assasinated with her two children from order from Berlin to keep her silent. I am looking for the name of that German officer and if this story is really true?
This story first appeared in the account "A Year in Treblinka", written by the inmate Yankiel Wiernik who escaped during the prisoner revolt in August 1943. He wrote his account while hiding out in Warsaw, and it was smuggled out to the West and published in New York in 1944.

According to Wiernik, the German officer's wife and her two children had boarded the train by mistake when it stopped at a station in Germany. That detail is nonsense, since the deportation trains were heavily guarded, and no unauthorised person would have been allowed to approach them, let alone board and travel on them.

Wiernik states that the woman and her two children were killed by order of the camp commandant, since they had witnessed the extermination process, and therefore could not be allowed to live. But the fact is that Germans stationed in the East had heard all about the extermination camps, and news about them, both true and untrue, was widespread.

One German soldier on leave, a certain Cornides, travelled by train past the Belzec camp, and in his diary he described how the passengers told him all about the camp, and as the train went past they all stared out the windows, trying to catch a glimpse of what was going on there.

For the above reasons, it may be concluded that Wiernik's account is a total fiction, some sort of moral tale with an unknown purpose.

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Post by David Thompson » 26 Apr 2007 04:36

Here is Yankiel Wiernik's account of the incident:
On another occasion a transport arrived from Germany. The new arrivals were put through the usual routine. When the people were ordered to undress, one of the women stepped forward with her two children, both of them boys. She presented identity papers showing that she was of pure German stock and had boarded this train by mistake. All her documents were found to be in order and her two sons had not been circumcised. She was a good-looking woman, but there was terror in her eyes. She clung to her children and tried to soothe them, saying that their troubles would soon be cleared up and they would return home to their father. She petted and kissed them, but she was crying because she was haunted by a dreadful foreboding.

The Germans ordered her to step forward. Thinking that this meant freedom for herself and her children, she relaxed. But alas, it had been decided that she was to perish together with the Jews, because she had seen too much and would be liable to tell all about what she had seen, which was supposed to be shrouded in secrecy. Whoever crossed the threshold of Treblinka was doomed to die. Therefore this German woman, together with her children, went to her death along with all the others. Her children cried just as the Jewish children did, and their eyes mirrored the same despair, for in death there is no racial distinction; all are equal. Her husband probably will be killed at the front, and she was killed in the camp.
http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm#chapter8

The alternative reading of this account is that Wiernik believed her (or wanted to believe her), but the German guards at the camp did not. I doubt that the woman boarded a deportation transport "by mistake" -- the primitive packed cattle car accommodations, together with the armed guards supervising the loading at the point of embarkation, would have put any normal person on notice immediately that the train wasn't heading for a place anyone would want to go.

Note that in Wiernik's account, there is no mention of the woman having been a German officer's wife, nor is there a description of an order from Berlin or from the camp commandant to kill her. The most likely explanation is that the woman told the guards that she and her children had been rounded up and forced on the train because of some mistake, and the guards didn't believe her.

The full book can be seen at:

A Year in Treblinka
http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm

Wiernik's testimony at the Eichmann trial, which does not include this story, is at:

Treblinka Testimony of Ya'akov Wiernik
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=48081

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Eddy Marz
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Post by Eddy Marz » 26 Apr 2007 07:06

Here's an excerpt from the Cornides report :

" The railway policeman who comes along as train escort joined us
in our compartment. He confirmed the woman's statements about
the children's bodies which were found along the track
yesterday. I asked: 'Do the Jews know then what is happening
with them? The woman answered: 'Those who come from far won't
know anything, but here in the vicinity they know already. They
attempt to run away then, if they notice that someone is coming
for them. So, for example, most recently in Cholm where three
were shot on the way through the city.' 'In the railway
documents these trains run under the name of resettlement
transports,' remarked the railway policeman....

Camp Belzec is supposed to be located right on the railway line
and the woman promised to show it to me when we pass it. [...]

6.20 pm. We passed camp Belzec. Before then, we travelled for
some time through a tall pine forest. When the woman called,
'Now it comes,' one could see a high hedge of fir trees.

A strong sweetish odour could be made out distinctly. 'But they
are stinking already,' says the woman. 'Oh nonsense, it is only
the gas,' the railway policeman said laughing. Meanwhile - we
had gone on about 200 metres - the sweetish odour was
transformed into a strong smell of something burning. 'That is
from the crematory,' says the policeman. A short distance
farther the fence stopped. In front of it, one could see a guard
house with an SS post. A double track led into the camp. One
track branched off from the main line, the other ran over a
turntable from the camp to a row of sheds some 250 metres away.

A frieght car happened to stand on the table. Several Jews were
busy turning the disc. SS guards, rifle under the arm, stood by.
One of the sheds was open; one could distinctly see that it was
filled with bundles of clothes to the ceiling. As we went on, I
looked back one more time. The fence was too high to see
anything at all. The woman says that sometimes, while going by,
one could see smoke rising from the camp, but I could notice
nothing of the sort. "

Regards
EM

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Re: Treblinka I/II

Post by paolosilv » 10 Jul 2009 18:31

Germar Rudolf openly denies the Holocaust.
He denies , acc. to his website, that there was a plan to murder all Jews. He denies that all Jews were murdered systematically. He denies the existence of gas chambers for mass murder. And he denies that six million Jews died in the Holocaust.
I am posting this because he was released from German prison on July 4, 2009, and it is important to acknowledge this information before he and his accomplices alter it. I have made a copy for myself.

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