Massacre of SS guards at Dachau

robert knott · Post by **robert knott** » 24 Feb 2004 08:04

David Thompson wrote:Thanks, Rob and Caldric, for your helpful and informative posts.

Yes, thanks, indeed! Very well researched and presented material. Unfortunately, you may well have to do it all over yet again in another few weeks. I've noticed that these guys keep showing up with the exact same theories about the same events over and over. They've done some research somewhere, since they all spout some nonsense they've picked up (from a revisionist website, usually) yet they seem incapable of doing even the most elementary search of this forum's archives to see how often the exact subject has already been discussed. Sadly, it seems that such logic and evidence as that posted by knowledgeable members has no effect on these one's thinking; they usually have no rebuttal to offer, but only move on to the next standard story on their agenda... "OK, how about this?" I'm a newcomer to the battle between True and Revisionist History, but I'm beginning to see how it goes.

Penn44 · Post by **Penn44** » 24 Feb 2004 08:33

robert knott wrote:
David Thompson wrote:Thanks, Rob and Caldric, for your helpful and informative posts.
Yes, thanks, indeed! Very well researched and presented material. Unfortunately, you may well have to do it all over yet again in another few weeks. I've noticed that these guys keep showing up with the exact same theories about the same events over and over. They've done some research somewhere, since they all spout some nonsense they've picked up (from a revisionist website, usually) yet they seem incapable of doing even the most elementary search of this forum's archives to see how often the exact subject has already been discussed. Sadly, it seems that such logic and evidence as that posted by knowledgeable members has no effect on these one's thinking; they usually have no rebuttal to offer, but only move on to the next standard story on their agenda... "OK, how about this?" I'm a newcomer to the battle between True and Revisionist History, but I'm beginning to see how it goes.

Robert Knott, I feel your pain.

Concerning Revisionists and their activities, what we are dealing with is not some open, honest historical enquiry into a historical event, but a legitimate psychological disorder, probably a form of Delusional Disorder (See Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-IV [DSM-IV]). These people have a pressing psychological need (urgency) to believe the things that they believe, and no amount of factually, rationally based counter-argument will shake them from it. Counter-argument may actually worsen the condition of these unfortunate persons.

What we frequently encounter in AHF is the evangelical version of these delusional Revisionists. Instead of quietly sitting at home watching the Hitler Channel, I mean the History Channel, or doing their research on UFOs, alien abductions, Atlantis, ouiji boards, seances, and conspiracies of various sorts, they have to roam the Internet espousing their delusional, revisionist ideas in the hopes of "converting" others over to their obsession.

Consider for a moment how much time and effort some of our Revisionists "friends" here devote to their endeavor. It is both startling and sad.

They represent less a historical "problem", and more a psychiatric problem.

We need to ask ourselves how much we "enable" these unfortunate persons in their delusions by even considering their posts for discussion.

When they raise and re-raise the very same issues ad nauseam, I recommend that we just respond, "Have you taken your medications today?" and/or we refer them to a free mental health clinic near them.

Penn44

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 24 Feb 2004 08:47

Robert and Penn44 -- For every person who posts on this board, there are 20 or 30 members and guests -- maybe more -- who just read what's written on the threads. Readers come to this section of the forum to see the very best of fact-based discussions, to do research and make up their own minds about historical problems and issues based on what they see here. Sometimes a poster may be a clown, an oaf, or a rowdy, but they are the exception, and I am confident that our intelligent readers can see that too. I try to keep those silent readers foremost in my mind when I post.

Penn44 · Post by **Penn44** » 24 Feb 2004 09:07

David Thompson:

I have often wondered what kind of reward you gain from moderating this madhouse. If you don't get your reward here on Earth, you're surely gain it in Heaven.

Penn44

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 24 Feb 2004 09:29

Thanks, Penn44.

Rob - wssob2 · Post by **Rob - wssob2** » 25 Feb 2004 21:59

Yes David - thanks for your excellent work as a moderator. I admire your patience and stamina!

Yes, thanks, indeed! Very well researched and presented material. Unfortunately, you may well have to do it all over yet again in another few weeks.

I'm working on placing my research on wssob.com so that we won't have to keep re-posting and re-posting and re-posting the material...

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 25 Feb 2004 22:02

Rob -- An excellent idea, and thanks for the compliment. Some of this stuff comes up so frequently that it needs a perma-link. If I can get some free time I'll try and do the same for this section of the forum.

alf · Post by **alf** » 25 Feb 2004 22:26

Penn44 wrote:David Thompson:

I have often wondered what kind of reward you gain from moderating this madhouse. If you don't get your reward here on Earth, you're surely gain it in Heaven.

Penn44

You will be welcome in Australia anytime David

Off topic for both Rob and David, have you ever considered placing your research onto CD's for members to purchase?? I for one would willing contribute to have access to such details

Many many thanks
alf

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 25 Feb 2004 23:11

alf -- Thanks for the compliment. As for the research, if I can answer a question, I'll try my best. There may come a time when I'll put all the research on a cd, but I'm so particular now that I don't know that my work would ever be neat enough or complete enough to front.

Uninen · Post by **Uninen** » 01 Mar 2004 06:29

ISBN 0 600 57464 4 (Illustrated History of 20th Century Conflict, page 259) :

--

"April 29 1945: 500 Guards at Dachau massacred by U.S. troops and inmates."

--

Also, what i have red.. these werent even camp guards but warriors of SS-Wiking division that happened to be near the location when captured while defending their homeland..

--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp

--

"After the camp was surrendered to Allied forces on April 29, 1945, the troops were so horrified by conditions at the camp that all of the camp guards were summarily shot."

--

http://www.humanitas-international.org/ ... iberation/

--

"Dead German soldiers at Dachau. Exact location unknown. They are wearing Tarnjacke, camouflage uniforms, of Waffen-SS combat troops."

"The photo above shows about 60 dead or wounded German guards lying at the base of a long wall. Only about one fourth of the total length of the wall is visible. A machine gunner crouches over a model 1919A4 machine gun, center foreground. The four German soldiers still standing and three or four of their fallen comrades at left who are still alive were shot only seconds after this photo was taken."

--

Look up the link for photos.

robert knott · Post by **robert knott** » 01 Mar 2004 08:40

robert knott wrote: Very well researched and presented material. Unfortunately, you may well have to do it all over yet again in another few weeks.

(Groan...) Well, apparently I was being too optimistic; it hasn't even been one week, and here it comes again. Uninen... did you take the time to read any of the information about this topic posted on this forum before you posted about these "warriors... defending their homeland", all of whom, supposedly were summarily shot? This has been discussed and disproven over and over and over...

Uninen · Post by **Uninen** » 01 Mar 2004 09:09

I guess that your going to tell me next that there was no massacre of millions of German civilians by GB's and USA's air forces?

Because now it seems that you are saying that there was no Dachau POW massacre? (which isnt true, as there was ~500 "Guards" killed, funnily many of them in Waffen-SS uniforms, Waffen-SS a organisation that had nothing to do with the camps..) Correct me if im wrong? (about your claim..)

Caldric · Post by **Caldric** » 01 Mar 2004 09:21

Uninen wrote:I guess that your going to tell me next that there was no massacre of millions of German civilians by GB's and USA's air forces?

Because now it seems that you are saying that there was no Dachau POW massacre? (which isnt true, as there was ~500 "Guards" killed, funnily many of them in Waffen-SS uniforms, Waffen-SS a organisation that had nothing to do with the camps..) Correct me if im wrong? (about your claim..)

Yes I will tell you there was no "massacre". With a straight face also. Perhaps those "Warriors of Honor" at Dachau can explain the death at Dachau why they did nothing to help them if they were "warriors" with honor they would have tried to help.

Uninen · Post by **Uninen** » 01 Mar 2004 09:40

Caldric wrote:Yes I will tell you there was no "massacre". With a straight face also.

That only tells me that your a great liar, or.. your totally ignorant to any facts of anything real. Let me repeat: At Dachau ~500 Germans were massacred and many of those were from Waffen-SS ..now which part dont you understand? Waffen-SS wasnt anymore quilty of any massacres or war crimes than USMC during that war, they did not run / operate death camps.

--

SS-Totenkopfverbande = "camp operators"
Waffen-SS = Elite fighting force

--

Two very separate things.

robert knott · Post by **robert knott** » 01 Mar 2004 09:46

From what I've seen, yes, there were some SS men shot at Dachau. As far as how many, who they were, and why and how it happened... this has all been researched and discussed to great length by qualified people on this forum on many different occasions. I, however, am not one of these qualified people, I had never even heard of this event until it was discussed on this forum. WWII history is an interest of mine, but only in a limited way; I am here more to learn than to try to convince others of my beliefs. However, I do consider myself able to discern truth from lies, and history from propaganda, when evidence and solid reasoning is used. The evidence has been presented in this case - what we decide to believe when confronted with it is up to each one individually. All that is asked is that one actually reads and considers the evidence before he speaks. As a final note I'll say this... As far as German troops who are remembered for their sacrifice in WWII... forget the millions who fought a relentless enemy under brutal conditions in Russia; forget the Afrika Korps who fought against a harsh desert as well as superior numbers, always low on supplies: forget the U-boat and Luftwaffe men whose missions became more and more suicidal... from what I've seen from their modern-day admirers... This handful of ruthless SS Guard-Pigs killed at Dachau is the most remembered, the most talked-about, the most immortalized band of martyrs in the history of the Third Reich.