Robbery of German patents by Western Allies in WW2

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
User avatar
Abbeyville Kid
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: 26 Feb 2004, 01:27
Location: USA

#16

Post by Abbeyville Kid » 01 Mar 2004, 00:54

Caldric,
Thanks for the welcome! That is why these great forums exist.It's everyones opinion.Thanks Again

User avatar
Latrans
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: 27 Dec 2004, 22:47
Location: Dallas, Texas

Story of the Magnetophone Recorder

#17

Post by Latrans » 11 Feb 2005, 19:17

The concept of magnetic storage was developed by Vladimir Poulsen
(a Dane) in 1899. The Germans had begun to work on a practical
recorder before World War 1. They had a working wire recorder.
But the steel wire turned about its axis, causing distortion.

In 1931 AEG engineers began working on the Magnetophone while
BASF chemists developed the first iron-oxide tape formula. Using
a US recording technique they had the recorder on their Rundfunk
stations by 1941.

A U.S. Army Signal Corps officer, Major John Mullin, found several
of these recorders. He acquired two of them and several rolls of
tape, and sent them back to the U.S. He managed to demonstrate
the recorders to Bing Crosby. Bing was greatly impressed, and
the first U.S. recorder was made by Ampex. (Bing was rumored
to be a major stockholder.)

This is a true story, and rather prosaic. One officer saw a potential
gold mine, and took a chance. I doubt if he profited from it. It was
war time, and victors have always plundered the enemy. They would
have done the same, had they won. They would have had war crimes
trials, too.


JamesL
Member
Posts: 1649
Joined: 28 Oct 2004, 01:03
Location: NJ USA

#18

Post by JamesL » 11 Feb 2005, 19:32

Heck, I'm still trying to figure out when the war ended.

If I remember correctly President Truman declared war's end in December 1945. I am not sure what other countries did. The Peace Treaties were signed in, what, 1953?

So I could see things developed by the Axis prior to the Peace Treay could be considered contraband and thus subject to confiscation by the Allies.

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23722
Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:52
Location: USA

#19

Post by David Thompson » 11 Feb 2005, 19:52

The terms plunder and robbery have meanings. They refer to crimes. Ancient principles of international law and the Hague IV Convention of 1907 acknowledged the difference between lawful seizures and the crimes of plunder/spoliation, and so should our readers.

In this context, "plunder" means the taking of property from persons or places by open force, without a claim of right. The term "pillage" has the same meaning.

For lawful seizures of enemy property and enemy aliens within one's own territory, Henry Maine's work International Law (1888), at: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/econ/intmenu.htm may be of interest and informative to the readers.

For lawful seizures of enemy property in occupied territory during hostilities, the 1909 Hague IV Convention on the laws and customs of war on land provides:
MILITARY AUTHORITY OVER THE TERRITORY OF THE HOSTILE STATE

Art. 42.
Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.

The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

Art. 43.
The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.

Art. 44.
A belligerent is forbidden to force the inhabitants of territory occupied by it to furnish information about the army of the other belligerent, or about its means of defense.

Art. 45.
It is forbidden to compel the inhabitants of occupied territory to swear allegiance to the hostile Power.

Art. 46.
Family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practice, must be respected.

Private property cannot be confiscated.

Art. 47.
Pillage is formally forbidden.

Art. 48.
If, in the territory occupied, the occupant collects the taxes, dues, and tolls imposed for the benefit of the State, he shall do so, as far as is possible, in accordance with the rules of assessment and incidence in force, and shall in consequence be bound to defray the expenses of the administration of the occupied territory to the same extent as the legitimate Government was so bound.

Art. 49.
If, in addition to the taxes mentioned in the above article, the occupant levies other money contributions in the occupied territory, this shall only be for the needs of the army or of the administration of the territory in question.

Art. 50.
No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they cannot be regarded as jointly and severally responsible.

Art. 51.
No contribution shall be collected except under a written order, and on the responsibility of a commander-in-chief.

The collection of the said contribution shall only be effected as far as possible in accordance with the rules of assessment and incidence of the taxes in force.

For every contribution a receipt shall be given to the contributors.

Art. 52.
Requisitions in kind and services shall not be demanded from municipalities or inhabitants except for the needs of the army of occupation. They shall be in proportion to the resources of the country, and of such a nature as not to involve the inhabitants in the obligation of taking part in military operations against their own country.

Such requisitions and services shall only be demanded on the authority of the commander in the locality occupied.

Contributions in kind shall as far as possible be paid for in cash; if not, a receipt shall be given and the payment of the amount due shall be made as soon as possible.

Art. 53.
An army of occupation can only take possession of cash, funds, and realizable securities which are strictly the property of the State, depots of arms, means of transport, stores and supplies, and, generally, all movable property belonging to the State which may be used for military operations.

All appliances, whether on land, at sea, or in the air, adapted for the transmission of news, or for the transport of persons or things, exclusive of cases governed by naval law, depots of arms, and, generally, all kinds of munitions of war, may be seized, even if they belong to private individuals, but must be restored and compensation fixed when peace is made.

Art. 54.
Submarine cables connecting an occupied territory with a neutral territory shall not be seized or destroyed except in the case of absolute necessity. They must likewise be restored and compensation fixed when peace is made.

Art. 55.
The occupying State shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct.

Art. 56.
The property of municipalities, that of institutions dedicated to religion, charity and education, the arts and sciences, even when State property, shall be treated as private property.

All seizure of, destruction or wilful damage done to institutions of this character, historic monuments, works of art and science, is forbidden, and should be made the subject of legal proceedings.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/hague04.htm

Further rights may be created by the terms of armistice, surrender, or treaties of peace.

User avatar
Pingpongtweet
Member
Posts: 60
Joined: 13 Jan 2010, 11:47

Re: Robbery of German patents by Western Allies in WW2

#20

Post by Pingpongtweet » 30 Jan 2013, 03:20

There is a book that covers this exhaustively.

Science, Technology, And Reparations: Exploitation And Plunder In Postwar Germany

It was written by the late Germany historian Professor Gimbel. Here is a link to a review.
http://dh.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/1/135.extract
By the end of August 1945 they had exploited some two
thousand targets in Germany, filmed and shipped back to the United States
reels of information pertaining to synthetic rubber, cold steel extrusion,
infrared, optical glass, electron microscopes, power circuit-breakers, diecasting
equipment, wind tunnels, acetylene chemistry, textiles and textile
machinery, x-ray tubes, ceramics, colors and dyes, tape recorders, diesel
motors, insecticides, color film processing, a unique chocolate-wrapping
machine, a continuous butter-making machine, a hot-welding process for
making radiator cores, and other technologies-almost all of which were
either new to American industry or “far superior” to anything in use in the
United Slates. Some of this information was helpful to defense
contractors. But with the war against Japan over on 15 August 1945, far more
was taken simply to improve the competitiveness of American industry in the
postwar period.
A textile machinery manufacturer in Bielefeld had to
surrender to a Western competitor a complete set of drawings for a special,
unpatented machine for making artificial silk. Wilhelm Steeger GmbH of
Wuppertal had to provide a complete set of drawings for a manure spreader.
Aachener Machinenbau Heinrich Schirp, on six different occasions in 1946
and 1947, had to surrender plans for machines used by the firm to make
sewing machine needles. Another firm had to turn over a special machine for
grinding ice-skate blades. A specialty manufacturer in Langenfeld had to give
up complete sets of plans and assembly instructions for machines to produce
paper napkins and cash register rolls. Even the famous stuffed-toy
manufacturer, Margarete Steiff GmbH, was visited by experts from
competitive fms who took notes, observed operations, and made sketches
and photographs of the firm’s unique equipment.
Gimbel estimates that the value plundered by the Americans and Brittish in this manner is very close to the Russians estimate of 10 billion USD.
It can be unfavourably compared with the later Marshall plan aid to Germany which according to Wikipedia amounted to just a fraction of this amount, less than 1.5 billion USD, part of which also had to be repaid.

For a look at how the plunder took place, here is a newspaper article on the British methods.
Their methods had echoes of the Gestapo: kidnapping at night by state officials who offered no evidence of identity. Recently declassified secret documents reveal how at the end of the second world war an elite British unit abducted hundreds of German scientists and technicians and put them to work at government ministries and private firms in the UK.

The programme was designed to loot the defeated country's intellectual assets, impeding its ability to compete while giving a boost to British business.

In a related programme, German businessmen are alleged to have been forced to travel to post-war Britain to be questioned by their commercial rivals, and were interned if they refused to reveal trade secrets.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ndworldwar

User avatar
Pingpongtweet
Member
Posts: 60
Joined: 13 Jan 2010, 11:47

Re:

#21

Post by Pingpongtweet » 30 Jan 2013, 03:49

JamesL wrote:Heck, I'm still trying to figure out when the war ended.

If I remember correctly President Truman declared war's end in December 1945. I am not sure what other countries did. The Peace Treaties were signed in, what, 1953?

So I could see things developed by the Axis prior to the Peace Treay could be considered contraband and thus subject to confiscation by the Allies.
From Wikipedia:

Cessation of hostilities between the United States and Germany was proclaimed on December 13, 1946 by U.S. President Truman.[19]
https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/ ... 612_1.html

The Federal Republic of Germany, that had been founded on May 23, 1949 (when its Basic Law was promulgated) had its first government formed on September 20, 1949 while the German Democratic Republic was formed on 7 October.

End of state of war with Germany was declared by many former Western Allies in 1950.

In the Petersberg Agreement of November 22, 1949, it was noted that the West German government wanted an end to the state of war, but the request could not be granted.

The U.S. state of war with Germany was being maintained for legal reasons, and though it was softened somewhat it was not suspended since "the U.S. wants to retain a legal basis for keeping a U.S. force in Western Germany".

[20] At a meeting for the Foreign Ministers of France, the UK, and the U.S. in New York from September 12 – December 19, 1950, it was stated that among other measures to strengthen West Germany's position in the Cold War that the western allies would "end by legislation the state of war with Germany".[21]

In 1951, many former Western Allies did end their state of war with Germany: Australia (9 July), Canada, Italy, New Zealand, the Netherlands (26 July), South Africa, the United Kingdom (9 July), and the United States (October 19).[22][23][24][25][26][27]
http://web.archive.org/web/200403050854 ... _1_5_.html

The state of war between Germany and the Soviet Union was ended in early 1955.[28]

"The full authority of a sovereign state" was granted to the Federal Republic of Germany on May 5, 1955 under the terms of the Bonn–Paris conventions. The treaty ended the military occupation of West German territory, but the three occupying powers retained some special rights, e.g. vis-à-vis West Berlin.

Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany: Under the terms of this peace treaty, the Four Powers renounced all rights they formerly held in Germany, including Berlin. As a result, Germany became fully sovereign on March 15, 1991. Under the terms of the Treaty, the Allies were allowed to keep troops in Berlin until the end of the year 1994 (articles 4 and 5). In accordance with the Treaty, occupying troops were withdrawn by that deadline. Germany remains however without the normal protection of the UN charter due to articles 53 and 107 in the charter which has not been amended since the end of the war.
------
Technically the war seems to have been on for a significant time. If I remember correctly early occupation troops were awarded the same credits as combat troops.

According to Perry Biddiscombe (via wikipedia) In the earliest stages of the occupation, US soldiers were not allowed to pay maintenance for a child they admitted having fathered, since to do so was considered as "aiding the enemy". Marriages between white US soldiers and Austrian women were not permitted until January 1946, and with German women until December 1946. Apparently the US army had as one of its missions to protect the purity of the white race, so black us soldiers were not allowed to marry white women, German or otherwise, until they changed the racial laws/rules in 1948.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3789820

This seems to fit in with the cessation of hostilities declaration of December 1946. One could assume then that any crimes commited by military personnel in Germany until December 1946 can be classified as war-crimes if they would have fallen in the warcrimes category before May 1945. Or one might even stretch the deadline to the point when the US ended the state of war with Germany, 19 October 1951. By crimes I'm here mainly referring to looting of private property such as confidential business designs such as for candy-wrappers and ice-skate grinders.

Post Reply

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”