Did the US drop booby-trapped toys in WWII?

DrG · #16

David Thompson wrote:Here is a photograph of a pen gun, rather than a pen bomb, which may have been airdropped (along with other material) by the allies to resistance groups.

Thank you for the info; but, as you told, we can see it's different from the pen shown in the photo and, more important, in May 1943 there weren't resistance groups in Italy.

David Thompson · #17

DrG -- You said, in response to my post:

Thank you for the info; but, as you told, we can see it's different from the pen shown in the photo and, more important, in May 1943 there weren't resistance groups in Italy.

Very well then, if there's some proof that the US dropped booby-trapped toys on Italy, let's see it. The photograph shows what purports to be a pen bomb. Where is the proof that it contains explosives? Italian fascist propaganda claims that the pens were dropped by the US. Where is the proof? All we have is a picture of a couple of pens and a lurid claim.

xcalibur · #18

David Thompson wrote:DrG -- You said, in response to my post:
Thank you for the info; but, as you told, we can see it's different from the pen shown in the photo and, more important, in May 1943 there weren't resistance groups in Italy.
Very well then, if there's some proof that the US dropped booby-trapped toys on Italy, let's see it. The photograph shows what purports to be a pen bomb. Where is the proof that it contains explosives? Italian fascist propaganda claims that the pens were dropped by the US. Where is the proof? All we have is a picture of a couple of pens and a lurid claim.

Could these so-called "pens" possibly be unignited components of incendiary bombs?

DrG · #19

David Thompson wrote:Very well then, if there's some proof that the US dropped booby-trapped toys on Italy, let's see it.

I don't see proofs, but if the presence of "explosive pens" was so feared by people (even today by old ones), there must have been a real base. I think that the idea of xcalibur about unignited parts of incendiary bombs is the best, probably they caused the alarm among people that was then exploited by propaganda.

PS Your post was quite "ignited", for a moderator.

michael mills · #20

I recall that during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, the claim appeared in the Western media that Soviet forces dropped mines disguised as toys for the purpose of maiming children.

Were those claims "fascist fantasies", a la Rob-WSSOB?

Or were they democratic, freedom-loving truths?

Perhaps in Rob-WSSOB's ideology they could be explained thus:

In the 1980s, when the Islamic mujehideen were fighting on the side of the Free World against the Evil Empire, the claims were democratic, freedom-loving truths.

But now that those same Islamic mujahideen have morphed into Islamo-Fascists, the claims have become fascist fantasies.

Rob - wssob2 · #21

LOL! Mr. Mills, you seem especially disgruntled tonight!

The items you're referring to of course are the Soviet PFM-1 "butterfly" anti-personnel mine, which is vaguely shaped like its namesake and can fit in the palm of your adult hand. The charge isn't very large, but is large enough to cause to maim, since a woulded guerrilla (or grandmother) will be much more of a burden to his comrades (or her family) than a dead one.

The Soviets would drop massive quantities of the PFM-1s from their helicopters as part of their depopulation and supply interdiction efforts in their counterinsurgency campaign - scatter them all over a mountain trail near the Khyber Pass, and you'll think twice about that midnight stroll to Kabul with your Martini-Henry.

The PFM-1's aren't brightly colored plastic like a "Happy Meal" prize, although the word "toy" has that implication. They're small, green or sand colored, funny looking things - the kind of thing that would make a kid say "cool" and pick it up.

The Made-In-USA exploding pens, though, are fascist fantasies, and apparently quite durable ones, at least in the minds of Blackshirts and Baathists.

David Thompson · #22

DrG -- You said:

if the presence of "explosive pens" was so feared by people (even today by old ones), there must have been a real base.

I suppose that because the "evil eye" (mal occhio) was so feared by people (even today by old ones), there must have been a real basis for that, too.

Caldric · #23

Did Mister Bacque make any of these allegations of toys in his book? I unfortunately have not spared to the time to nor did I have the desire to read his work. Although it would be good for a laugh I suppose.

I would not put too much faith in the pen and toy propaganda if it were remotely possible the NSDAP sympathizers would have been all over it.

robert knott · #24

Rob-WSSOB mentioned the Iraqi accusation of "pencil bombs" used by the U.S. in 2003. It's strange how such an absurd story will resurface after 60 years. Possibly they had some 1943 surplus to use up? Here is the Iraqi accusation sandwiched between some obvious proganda/lies: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/885979/posts I don't know much about this site and don't endorse its politics, but this gives some more information, supposedly reported on CNN. I guess one advantage the Russian civilians had in WWII was that the Nazis didn't think they were smart enough to know what a pen was for, or thought that they were too lazy to bend over and pick it up.

voorst · #25

David Thompson wrote: I suppose that because the "evil eye" (mal occhio) was so feared by people (even today by old ones), there must have been a real basis for that, too.

Sorry, i can't see what u mean..Malocchio is a completly different matter.... :roll:

DrG · #26

David Thompson wrote:I suppose that because the "evil eye" (mal occhio) was so feared by people (even today by old ones), there must have been a real basis for that, too.

Are you a moderator or a provocateur? I've told my opinion, that at the end is like yours: that there aren't proofs. Nevertheless this myth is so spread that certainly it had a real basis, as explained by xcalibur (or should I say that xcalibur's post is worthless and propaganda inveted everything, just to make you happy?). If you want to go on, you can, but from a moderator I would expect more... moderation. Maybe it's too much. :roll:

DrG · #27

Rob - WSSOB wrote:The Made-In-USA exploding pens, though, are fascist fantasies, and apparently quite durable ones, at least in the minds of Blackshirts and Baathists.

Ah, yes, of course all the old people I know (even women) were Blackshirts. :roll:

Rob - wssob2 · #28

Nevertheless this myth is so spread that certainly it had a real basis

really? So since so many people believe Jews control world finance and the media it "must" be true then, right?....

:roll:

Bring some proof - not conspiracy speculation.

voorst · #29

[quote="Rob - WSSOB"]
really? So since so many people believe Jews control world finance and the media it "must" be true then, right?....
quote]

Aren't they?

Please stay on topic anyway....

There are many people who remember them, pictures, articles, et cetera.
The strangest thing is that most of the people who remember explosive pens are in Rome (i personally don't know even one in northern Italy..).
But the propaganda was even greater in the RSI, and newspapers were at country level...so why only at Rome this fact is so well known?

Maybe because they were used seldomly and only in that area?

I simply consider explo-pens more possible than not.

Michael Miller · #30

Yes, something more than speculation and folklore is called for here. U.S. Army Air Force bomber crews have been accused of a disgusting crime- specifically targeting children for mutilation and murder. For this to be anything but an accusation we need real documentation in the form of an official order or a photo of what is clearly a U.S. manufactured explosive pen or toy.

~ Mike