Possibly because Rome is a huge city, where thousands of people chat, gossip and pass along rumors on a daily basis. This happened in all urban areas (especially in days before the Internet) rather than in rural areas. Perhaps this is why such widespread falsehoods are called "Urban Legends".voorst wrote: The strangest thing is that most of the people who remember explosive pens are in Rome (i personally don't know even one in northern Italy..).
But the propaganda was even greater in the RSI, and newspapers were at country level...so why only at Rome this fact is so well known?
Maybe because they were used seldomly and only in that area?
I simply consider explo-pens more possible than not.
Did the US drop booby-trapped toys in WWII?
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robert knott
- Member
- Posts: 106
- Joined: 18 Nov 2003, 09:30
- Location: palatka
FIRST: I've told there aren't proofs and that in my opinion the explaination given by xcalibur is the best one. In my opinion unexploded incendiary bombs caused alarm among people (a very long lasting alarm), and then it was used by Fascist propaganda. I hope you are able to read what I've already written more than once.Rob - WSSOB wrote:really? So since so many people believe Jews control world finance and the media it "must" be true then, right?....
:roll:
Bring some proof - not conspiracy speculation.
SECOND: the only one who made conspiracy speculation was you, not me. You have started talking about Fascist and Baathist (even though Iraq has nothing to do with this topic) conspiracies to depict your beloved USA as a country of gangsters. I've never talked about a single conspiracy, I've only written what I knew about this topic, not a line more.
THIRD: the Jewish control of finance has nothing to do with this topic; nevertheless you have chosen a good example: there are many Jews in prominent economic positions, expecially in the media, and this is the base that caused the birth of the speculations about Jewish control on economy and media.
For me this thread has reached a conclusion (as explained in my first point), thus I'll not waste my time in it anymore.
When evaluating stories like "explosive toys," you have to ask yourself, "what was the military purpose of these items?"
Blowing the hands off of children doesn't serve any legitimate military purpose, not even for a terror campaign because it would produce the reverse results. And it is a terrible waste of military resources when more valuable targets exist.
This is sheer propaganda.
Penn44
Blowing the hands off of children doesn't serve any legitimate military purpose, not even for a terror campaign because it would produce the reverse results. And it is a terrible waste of military resources when more valuable targets exist.
This is sheer propaganda.
Penn44
Seems it's not so much a matter of "evaluation" but rather a question of proof. So far no one has come up with anything concrete.voorst wrote:IMO neither italians nor americans can evaluate without "passion" the matter.
Anyway bombing civilian population has its military reasons.
If not why so many cities with no military installations were bombed in WWII?
Breaking a people will, means breaking the army of that people morale.
Re: Did the US drop booby-trapped toys in WWII?
I suspect he is in fact referring to the 2 Ib M83 fragmentation bomb, which were carried in clusters underneath USAAF fighter bombers in the latter part of the war, for use against soft-skin ground targets.Caldric wrote:Toy bombs are completely new to me. Although such stories are normal when people are trying to demonize their enemy. Sounds more like a urban legend than fact..This thread started with a comment in a post by asgatalopt:
-- by the moderator -- DTMy father as a child was strafed at lest twice by american fighter planes, and he was in the company of a farm's wagon attached to a longhorn ...
Ah, he remembers also toy bombs, spread in a tilled field by american bombing planes, just like the ones the evil soviets planted in Afghanistan (when the mujaeddin were still glorious fighters, a little bit before they could start tinkering with american planes, see how peoples turn from heroical to heinous).
They were of course not designed to look like toys, but they were very small, and like all cluster weapons it was not unusual for a small number to not work when dropped, but to go off later if disturbed.
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michael mills
- Member
- Posts: 9000
- Joined: 11 Mar 2002, 13:42
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Mike Miller wrote:
I will revert here to my original post on this thread and, using Mike Miller's formulation, say that Soviet forces were accused in the Western media of a disgusting crime - specifically targeting children for mutilation and murder.
Rob-WSSOB has provided a rational explanation for the accusation made in the Western media. The Soviet forces did not target children by dropping explosives disguised as toys; they dropped small anti-personnel mines for the military purpose of causing damage to the Islamic insurgents.
It is obvious that the Western media picked up reports about the mines, which obviously could have wounded incautious children, and transformed them for propaganda purposes into a "disgusting crime", to use Mike Miller's words - the deliberate targeting of children.
I note that Rob-WSSOB, consistent with his apparent ideological stance, does not call the propagandist Western media reports "democratic freedom-loving fantasies". In fact, he does not call them fantasies of any kind.
Redcoat has now provided a rational explanation for the so-called "pencil bommbs" dropped by the United States forces on Italy. According to him they were "2 Ib M83 fragmentation bomb, which were carried in clusters underneath USAAF fighter bombers in the latter part of the war, for use against soft-skin ground targets".
Redcoat also provides the rational explanation that "they were of course not designed to look like toys, but they were very small, and like all cluster weapons it was not unusual for a small number to not work when dropped, but to go off later if disturbed".
In other words, we have here exactly the same phenomenon as occurred later in Afghanistan. Small explosives were dropped for a military purpose, and some of them maimed curious children who picked them up. That gave rise to the rumour that bombs disguised as toys were being dropped for the purpose of maiming children, a "disgusting crime" in Mike Miller's words.
Those rumours were then taken up by the official Italian press and used for propaganda purposes against the United States.
We have here parallel phenomena, with the following course:
1. One of the sides in a conflict drops on territory held by its opponent small explosive devices for the military purpose of inflicting damage on enemy personnel.
2. The explosive devices bear a superficial resemblance to objects of normal civilian use, eg pens or toys, although they are not designed as such.
3. Curious children pick up the divices, and are maimed by them.
4. The rumour spreads among the population of the territory on which the devices have been dropped that their enemies are deliberately targeting their children with those devices.
5. The rumours are picked up by the media of the governments opposed to the forces that dropped the explosive devices (the Italian Government in the Second World War, the United States Government and other western governments in the Afghanistan War) and cynically transformed into a vile accusation against their enemies.
It is therefore reasonable to call those cynical accusations "fantasies", "fascist fantasies" in the case of the Italian Government and "democratic fantasies" in the case of the United States Government.
It is not surprising that an activist such as Rob-WSSOB attacks only the fantasies peddled by the wartime Italian Government, while remaining silent about those peddled by the United States Government in the 1980s.
I agree with the above. A rational explanation is needed for the speculative claims made in folklore.Yes, something more than speculation and folklore is called for here. U.S. Army Air Force bomber crews have been accused of a disgusting crime- specifically targeting children for mutilation and murder. For this to be anything but an accusation we need real documentation in the form of an official order or a photo of what is clearly a U.S. manufactured explosive pen or toy.
~ Mike
I will revert here to my original post on this thread and, using Mike Miller's formulation, say that Soviet forces were accused in the Western media of a disgusting crime - specifically targeting children for mutilation and murder.
Rob-WSSOB has provided a rational explanation for the accusation made in the Western media. The Soviet forces did not target children by dropping explosives disguised as toys; they dropped small anti-personnel mines for the military purpose of causing damage to the Islamic insurgents.
It is obvious that the Western media picked up reports about the mines, which obviously could have wounded incautious children, and transformed them for propaganda purposes into a "disgusting crime", to use Mike Miller's words - the deliberate targeting of children.
I note that Rob-WSSOB, consistent with his apparent ideological stance, does not call the propagandist Western media reports "democratic freedom-loving fantasies". In fact, he does not call them fantasies of any kind.
Redcoat has now provided a rational explanation for the so-called "pencil bommbs" dropped by the United States forces on Italy. According to him they were "2 Ib M83 fragmentation bomb, which were carried in clusters underneath USAAF fighter bombers in the latter part of the war, for use against soft-skin ground targets".
Redcoat also provides the rational explanation that "they were of course not designed to look like toys, but they were very small, and like all cluster weapons it was not unusual for a small number to not work when dropped, but to go off later if disturbed".
In other words, we have here exactly the same phenomenon as occurred later in Afghanistan. Small explosives were dropped for a military purpose, and some of them maimed curious children who picked them up. That gave rise to the rumour that bombs disguised as toys were being dropped for the purpose of maiming children, a "disgusting crime" in Mike Miller's words.
Those rumours were then taken up by the official Italian press and used for propaganda purposes against the United States.
We have here parallel phenomena, with the following course:
1. One of the sides in a conflict drops on territory held by its opponent small explosive devices for the military purpose of inflicting damage on enemy personnel.
2. The explosive devices bear a superficial resemblance to objects of normal civilian use, eg pens or toys, although they are not designed as such.
3. Curious children pick up the divices, and are maimed by them.
4. The rumour spreads among the population of the territory on which the devices have been dropped that their enemies are deliberately targeting their children with those devices.
5. The rumours are picked up by the media of the governments opposed to the forces that dropped the explosive devices (the Italian Government in the Second World War, the United States Government and other western governments in the Afghanistan War) and cynically transformed into a vile accusation against their enemies.
It is therefore reasonable to call those cynical accusations "fantasies", "fascist fantasies" in the case of the Italian Government and "democratic fantasies" in the case of the United States Government.
It is not surprising that an activist such as Rob-WSSOB attacks only the fantasies peddled by the wartime Italian Government, while remaining silent about those peddled by the United States Government in the 1980s.
Air dropped anti-personal bomblets were first used by US forces in Vietnam.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-43.htm
A problem with these weapons,with attached fins to promote air drag and lessen scatterability,is that they can be mistaken for a toy by a curious child.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-43.htm
A problem with these weapons,with attached fins to promote air drag and lessen scatterability,is that they can be mistaken for a toy by a curious child.
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David Thompson
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 23724
- Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:52
- Location: USA
Here is an official list of all USAAF air attacks on Italy up until the time that L'Illustrazione Italiana published its photograph of the booby-trapped toys on 22 May 1943. The full USAAF WWII chronology is available at:
ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/ wwii_chronology
MONDAY, 11 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, US B-24s hit the harbor at Naples.
TUESDAY, 26 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, headwinds prevent B-24s from reaching Naples, the primary target, before dark, so they divert to Messina, bombing the town and the area around the train ferry terminal.
WEDNESDAY, 27 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb Naples and Messina during the night of 26/27 Jan.
SATURDAY, 30 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb the train ferry terminal at Messina. Direct hits are
scored on a ship and AA battery near the terminal.
MONDAY, 31 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s hit the railroad ferry installations at Messina harbor.
WEDNESDAY, 3 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s hit the harbors at Palermo, Sicily and Messina, Italy; one
bombs Plati, Italy.
SUNDAY, 7 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s it the harbor at Naples, scoring a direct hit on 1 vessel
and hits on others.
MONDAY, 8 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s attack ferry installations at Messina.
SATURDAY, 13 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb the Naples area and Crotone Airfield and the city area under storm conditions.
MONDAY, 15 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s attack the harbor at Naples, scoring direct hits on 2
vessels.
SATURDAY, 20 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb Crotone, Naples, Amantea, Palmi, Nicotera and Rosarno.
TUESDAY, 23 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s attack the Messina ferry slip, scoring direct hits and
leaving the target area burning.
THURSDAY, 25 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb Naples harbor and Crotone during the night of 24/25 Feb.
MONDAY, 1 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s raid the harbor at Naples; 1 bombs Soverato while 2 others hit Staletti and Catanzaro as targets of opportunity. AA fire is accurate and several B-24s are hit over Naples and Palmi.
WEDNESDAY, 3 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s dispatched against Naples fail to reach the primary target. Several bomb the secondary target, Messina, while 3 bomb bridges at Bianco and Siderno Marina.
FRIDAY, 5 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, bomb the harbor at Naples during the night of 4/5 March.
SATURDAY, 13 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb Naples harbor through heavy clouds
SUNDAY, 14 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 13/14 Mar, RAF Liberators under the operational
control of the IX Bomber Command hit the harbor at Naples.
THURSDAY, 18 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's, escorted by P-40's, bomb the harbor at Naples.
SUNDAY, 21 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 20/21 March, B-24's attack the harbor and
surrounding area of Naples, hitting a vessel, the city area, and in the
vicinity of the railroad yards.
MONDAY, 22 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 21/22 Mar, RAF Liberators, under operational
control of the IX Bomber Command, bomb Naples.
TUESDAY, 23 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's bomb Messina, concentrating on the ferry slip.
WEDNESDAY, 24 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack the ferry installations at Messina. Direct hits are
scored in the target area and adjacent railroad yards and naval oil and storage tanks are set afire. Just before midnight, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber Command, blast the docks at Messina.
TUESDAY, 30 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, 3 B-24's sent to bomb the Messina ferry slip are unable to
rendezvous because of bad weather; 1 B-24 bombs the Crotone chemical factory, hitting the center of the factory area, warehouses, and rail facilities. RAF Liberators sent against the same target return without bombing.
FRIDAY, 2 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 1/2 Apr, RAF Liberators, under the operational control of the IX Bomber Command, bomb the ferry terminal at Messina and the airfield at Crotone. During the day, 2 B-24's on a special mission bomb the ferry terminals at Messina and Villa San Giovanni; 27 B-24's sent against Naples find the target totally obscured by clouds; 9 bomb the area through overcast and 3 bomb Augusta and Crotone.
SUNDAY, 4 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack Naples, concentrating on the dock area.
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-25's bomb small shipping at Carloforte on San Pietro Island.
B-17's hit Capodichino Airfield and the marshalling yards at Naples.
TUESDAY, 6 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under IX Bomber Command control, bomb the Naples area and rail facilities in Messina, Sicily.
SATURDAY, 10 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's bomb the harbor at Naples.
SUNDAY, 11 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack Naples harbor. AA is intense and fighters attack
B-24's from all sides, knocking 1 down. The B-24's claim destruction of 3
fighters.
MONDAY, 12 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's of the 376th Bombardment Group (Heavy) sent to attack
Naples harbor, are prevented by bad weather from bombing the primary target. About half return without bombing while the others hit Cosenza and Crotone. Other heavy bombers of the same group, in a subsequent mission, bomb Naples and the secondary target of Pizzo.
In Sicily, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, are dispatched against Palermo. The primary target is attacked, in spite of total cloud cover, but most of bomb tonnage is dropped in Messina, Italy harbor.
THURSDAY, 15 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, hit Naples and Messina.
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, Northwest African Coastal Air Force (NACAF) B-26's on armed
reconnaissance of the Naples area attack a vessel S of Ustica Island.
TUESDAY, 20 APRIL 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
The Northwest African Coastal Air Force (NACAF) continues sea
patrols and reconnaissance as far-reaching as the approaches to Naples, Italy.
WEDNESDAY, 21 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, bomb Naples.
THURSDAY, 22 APRIL 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-26's hit the harbor at Carloforte on San Pietro Island.
FRIDAY, 23 APRIL 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Tunisia, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-25's and B-26's bomb vehicles and the railroad at Mateur, the Mateur-Bedja road and Arbatax harbor in Italy.
SATURDAY, 24 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, bomb Naples.
WEDNESDAY, 28 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack the harbor at Naples and the ferry slip at Messina.
Gunners claim 5 fighters destroyed.
FRIDAY, 30 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack the Messina ferry; bombs hit the target area and
nearby marshalling yard and the city area.
SATURDAY, 1 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's bomb the harbor at Reggio di Calabria..
TUESDAY, 4 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack shipping at Reggio di Calabria and Taranto.
WEDNESDAY, 5 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-25's and B-26's bomb shipping off Marettimo Island.
THURSDAY, 6 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's bomb Reggio di Calabria harbor, hitting several vessels and shore installations.
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-25's and B-26's, escorted by fighters, bomb a convoy SW of
Marettimo Island, the port of Favignana, and vessels W of Mitrettimo.
SUNDAY, 9 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack harbor facilities at Messina, scoring hits on the
ferry terminal, roundhouse, 2 ferries, and a ship.
TUESDAY, 11 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, NASAF P-40's bomb and strafe harbor at San Michele.
THURSDAY, 13 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-25's bomb Augusta while RAF Liberators, under operational
control of the IX Bomber Command, attack the Messina ferry terminal.
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) Wellingtons bomb the area of the railroad station, marshalling yard and docks in Naples during the night of 12/13 May.
FRIDAY, 14 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-17's bomb Civitavecchia.
During the day, P-38's bomb tunnel, barracks, airfield, industry, power
station, and town areas at Sassari and Abbasanta, Italy; and Alghero and Porto Torres, Sardinia.
SATURDAY, 15 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In the Mediterranean, the Northwest Coastal Air Force (NACAF) maintains sea patrol and reconnaissance over large area from the W coast of Italy over Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia, and as far N as Marseilles, France.
MONDAY, 17 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) Wellingtons bomb the Lido di Roma seaplane base and drop leaflets over Rome.
THURSDAY, 20 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, P-38's bomb the docks on the Gulf of Aranci, a railroad bridge NE of Perfugas, the Macomer rail junction, and targets of opportunity at Sassari, Bonnanaro, and Chilivani while B-17's strike Grosseto Airfield.
FRIDAY, 21 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 2O/2l May, RAF Liberators, under operational
control of IX Bomber Command, bomb Messina and Reggio di Calabria. During the day, B-24's hit Vila San Giovanni and Reggio di Calabria; gunners claim 4 fighters destroyed.
* * * * * * * * * *
The problem with the "toy bomb" analysis so far is that none of the explanations match the allegations. The photograph published in L'Illustrazione Italiana shows 2 alleged bombs which look like pens or mechanical pencils. The Italian propaganda poster of the two boys shows 2 bombs resembling pens or mechanical pencils in the lower left corner. The illustration of the bomblets published in L'Illustrazione Italiana and the one on the fascist propaganda poster closely resemble each other.
The Italian fascist illustrations clearly resemble a pen or mechanical pencil, not a piece that fell off of an incendiary bomb or some sort of finned bomb. The photograph published in L'Illustrazione Italiana, in particular, indicates that the atrocity claim is not the result of some misunderstanding of a para-frag bomb or a piece from an incendiary bomb. For that reason, the explanations involving parts of incendiary bombs or fragmentation bombs do not plausibly explain the wartime claim that the US deliberately made bombs in the shap of pens or mechanical pencils to maim or kill Italian civilians.
ftp.rutgers.edu in directory pub/wwii/usaf
byrd.mu.wvnet.edu (129.71.32.152) in pub/history/military/airforce/ wwii_chronology
MONDAY, 11 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, US B-24s hit the harbor at Naples.
TUESDAY, 26 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, headwinds prevent B-24s from reaching Naples, the primary target, before dark, so they divert to Messina, bombing the town and the area around the train ferry terminal.
WEDNESDAY, 27 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb Naples and Messina during the night of 26/27 Jan.
SATURDAY, 30 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb the train ferry terminal at Messina. Direct hits are
scored on a ship and AA battery near the terminal.
MONDAY, 31 JANUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s hit the railroad ferry installations at Messina harbor.
WEDNESDAY, 3 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s hit the harbors at Palermo, Sicily and Messina, Italy; one
bombs Plati, Italy.
SUNDAY, 7 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s it the harbor at Naples, scoring a direct hit on 1 vessel
and hits on others.
MONDAY, 8 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s attack ferry installations at Messina.
SATURDAY, 13 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb the Naples area and Crotone Airfield and the city area under storm conditions.
MONDAY, 15 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s attack the harbor at Naples, scoring direct hits on 2
vessels.
SATURDAY, 20 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb Crotone, Naples, Amantea, Palmi, Nicotera and Rosarno.
TUESDAY, 23 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s attack the Messina ferry slip, scoring direct hits and
leaving the target area burning.
THURSDAY, 25 FEBRUARY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb Naples harbor and Crotone during the night of 24/25 Feb.
MONDAY, 1 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s raid the harbor at Naples; 1 bombs Soverato while 2 others hit Staletti and Catanzaro as targets of opportunity. AA fire is accurate and several B-24s are hit over Naples and Palmi.
WEDNESDAY, 3 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s dispatched against Naples fail to reach the primary target. Several bomb the secondary target, Messina, while 3 bomb bridges at Bianco and Siderno Marina.
FRIDAY, 5 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, bomb the harbor at Naples during the night of 4/5 March.
SATURDAY, 13 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24s bomb Naples harbor through heavy clouds
SUNDAY, 14 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 13/14 Mar, RAF Liberators under the operational
control of the IX Bomber Command hit the harbor at Naples.
THURSDAY, 18 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's, escorted by P-40's, bomb the harbor at Naples.
SUNDAY, 21 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 20/21 March, B-24's attack the harbor and
surrounding area of Naples, hitting a vessel, the city area, and in the
vicinity of the railroad yards.
MONDAY, 22 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 21/22 Mar, RAF Liberators, under operational
control of the IX Bomber Command, bomb Naples.
TUESDAY, 23 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's bomb Messina, concentrating on the ferry slip.
WEDNESDAY, 24 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack the ferry installations at Messina. Direct hits are
scored in the target area and adjacent railroad yards and naval oil and storage tanks are set afire. Just before midnight, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber Command, blast the docks at Messina.
TUESDAY, 30 MARCH 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, 3 B-24's sent to bomb the Messina ferry slip are unable to
rendezvous because of bad weather; 1 B-24 bombs the Crotone chemical factory, hitting the center of the factory area, warehouses, and rail facilities. RAF Liberators sent against the same target return without bombing.
FRIDAY, 2 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 1/2 Apr, RAF Liberators, under the operational control of the IX Bomber Command, bomb the ferry terminal at Messina and the airfield at Crotone. During the day, 2 B-24's on a special mission bomb the ferry terminals at Messina and Villa San Giovanni; 27 B-24's sent against Naples find the target totally obscured by clouds; 9 bomb the area through overcast and 3 bomb Augusta and Crotone.
SUNDAY, 4 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack Naples, concentrating on the dock area.
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-25's bomb small shipping at Carloforte on San Pietro Island.
B-17's hit Capodichino Airfield and the marshalling yards at Naples.
TUESDAY, 6 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under IX Bomber Command control, bomb the Naples area and rail facilities in Messina, Sicily.
SATURDAY, 10 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's bomb the harbor at Naples.
SUNDAY, 11 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack Naples harbor. AA is intense and fighters attack
B-24's from all sides, knocking 1 down. The B-24's claim destruction of 3
fighters.
MONDAY, 12 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's of the 376th Bombardment Group (Heavy) sent to attack
Naples harbor, are prevented by bad weather from bombing the primary target. About half return without bombing while the others hit Cosenza and Crotone. Other heavy bombers of the same group, in a subsequent mission, bomb Naples and the secondary target of Pizzo.
In Sicily, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, are dispatched against Palermo. The primary target is attacked, in spite of total cloud cover, but most of bomb tonnage is dropped in Messina, Italy harbor.
THURSDAY, 15 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, hit Naples and Messina.
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, Northwest African Coastal Air Force (NACAF) B-26's on armed
reconnaissance of the Naples area attack a vessel S of Ustica Island.
TUESDAY, 20 APRIL 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
The Northwest African Coastal Air Force (NACAF) continues sea
patrols and reconnaissance as far-reaching as the approaches to Naples, Italy.
WEDNESDAY, 21 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, bomb Naples.
THURSDAY, 22 APRIL 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-26's hit the harbor at Carloforte on San Pietro Island.
FRIDAY, 23 APRIL 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Tunisia, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) B-25's and B-26's bomb vehicles and the railroad at Mateur, the Mateur-Bedja road and Arbatax harbor in Italy.
SATURDAY, 24 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, RAF Liberators, under operational control of the IX Bomber
Command, bomb Naples.
WEDNESDAY, 28 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack the harbor at Naples and the ferry slip at Messina.
Gunners claim 5 fighters destroyed.
FRIDAY, 30 APRIL 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack the Messina ferry; bombs hit the target area and
nearby marshalling yard and the city area.
SATURDAY, 1 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's bomb the harbor at Reggio di Calabria..
TUESDAY, 4 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack shipping at Reggio di Calabria and Taranto.
WEDNESDAY, 5 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-25's and B-26's bomb shipping off Marettimo Island.
THURSDAY, 6 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's bomb Reggio di Calabria harbor, hitting several vessels and shore installations.
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-25's and B-26's, escorted by fighters, bomb a convoy SW of
Marettimo Island, the port of Favignana, and vessels W of Mitrettimo.
SUNDAY, 9 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-24's attack harbor facilities at Messina, scoring hits on the
ferry terminal, roundhouse, 2 ferries, and a ship.
TUESDAY, 11 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, NASAF P-40's bomb and strafe harbor at San Michele.
THURSDAY, 13 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy, B-25's bomb Augusta while RAF Liberators, under operational
control of the IX Bomber Command, attack the Messina ferry terminal.
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) Wellingtons bomb the area of the railroad station, marshalling yard and docks in Naples during the night of 12/13 May.
FRIDAY, 14 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, B-17's bomb Civitavecchia.
During the day, P-38's bomb tunnel, barracks, airfield, industry, power
station, and town areas at Sassari and Abbasanta, Italy; and Alghero and Porto Torres, Sardinia.
SATURDAY, 15 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In the Mediterranean, the Northwest Coastal Air Force (NACAF) maintains sea patrol and reconnaissance over large area from the W coast of Italy over Sicily, Corsica, Sardinia, and as far N as Marseilles, France.
MONDAY, 17 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, Northwest African Strategic Air Force (NASAF) Wellingtons bomb the Lido di Roma seaplane base and drop leaflets over Rome.
THURSDAY, 20 MAY 1943
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Italy, P-38's bomb the docks on the Gulf of Aranci, a railroad bridge NE of Perfugas, the Macomer rail junction, and targets of opportunity at Sassari, Bonnanaro, and Chilivani while B-17's strike Grosseto Airfield.
FRIDAY, 21 MAY 1943
EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Ninth Air Force):
In Italy during the night of 2O/2l May, RAF Liberators, under operational
control of IX Bomber Command, bomb Messina and Reggio di Calabria. During the day, B-24's hit Vila San Giovanni and Reggio di Calabria; gunners claim 4 fighters destroyed.
* * * * * * * * * *
The problem with the "toy bomb" analysis so far is that none of the explanations match the allegations. The photograph published in L'Illustrazione Italiana shows 2 alleged bombs which look like pens or mechanical pencils. The Italian propaganda poster of the two boys shows 2 bombs resembling pens or mechanical pencils in the lower left corner. The illustration of the bomblets published in L'Illustrazione Italiana and the one on the fascist propaganda poster closely resemble each other.
The Italian fascist illustrations clearly resemble a pen or mechanical pencil, not a piece that fell off of an incendiary bomb or some sort of finned bomb. The photograph published in L'Illustrazione Italiana, in particular, indicates that the atrocity claim is not the result of some misunderstanding of a para-frag bomb or a piece from an incendiary bomb. For that reason, the explanations involving parts of incendiary bombs or fragmentation bombs do not plausibly explain the wartime claim that the US deliberately made bombs in the shap of pens or mechanical pencils to maim or kill Italian civilians.
- Attachments
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- penna_esplosiva.jpeg (36.07 KiB) Viewed 2227 times
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- bombpens.jpeg (145.19 KiB) Viewed 2229 times
http://www.memory2000.net/int_ita_8.asp
........E c’erano poi quelle famose penne stilografiche esplosive, c’erano tante cose che i bimbi... le bambole che erano pericolosissime, e ai bimbi era proibito... dicevano sempre "Non toccate niente, non tirate su niente, non andate a tirare su la roba che vedete" ed era... come si dice... curioso un bimbo vedere queste cose, fra l’altro un mio amico ha perso un braccio, un altro una mano, e si trovavano questi giocattoli, queste cose ed era... sì, sempre per fare del sabotaggio oppure per fare... per me più che sabotaggio è un po’ vandalismo, fa niente, tanto sapevano che erano i bimbi che andavano a prender su questa roba, non ci andavano i grandi.......
In this page we can read that this antifascist men rememer very well the famous pens bomb and two personal young friends was mutilated. One lose the arm, the other the hand.
He say that the puppets was much more dangerous that the pens.
The opinion of this man is that no was sabotage, was vandalism, cause is obvious that who make these traps know very well that nobody is so stupid for touch these items, only a children can be the target.
Luca
Ps for Voorst = the young friends of this man was wounded near Modena, so appear that not only the childrens of Roma have problems.
........E c’erano poi quelle famose penne stilografiche esplosive, c’erano tante cose che i bimbi... le bambole che erano pericolosissime, e ai bimbi era proibito... dicevano sempre "Non toccate niente, non tirate su niente, non andate a tirare su la roba che vedete" ed era... come si dice... curioso un bimbo vedere queste cose, fra l’altro un mio amico ha perso un braccio, un altro una mano, e si trovavano questi giocattoli, queste cose ed era... sì, sempre per fare del sabotaggio oppure per fare... per me più che sabotaggio è un po’ vandalismo, fa niente, tanto sapevano che erano i bimbi che andavano a prender su questa roba, non ci andavano i grandi.......
In this page we can read that this antifascist men rememer very well the famous pens bomb and two personal young friends was mutilated. One lose the arm, the other the hand.
He say that the puppets was much more dangerous that the pens.
The opinion of this man is that no was sabotage, was vandalism, cause is obvious that who make these traps know very well that nobody is so stupid for touch these items, only a children can be the target.
Luca
Ps for Voorst = the young friends of this man was wounded near Modena, so appear that not only the childrens of Roma have problems.
-
David Thompson
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 23724
- Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:52
- Location: USA
Luca -- Thanks for the additional detail. From the descriptions it appears that there were at least two types of these toy bombs -- one resembling a pen or mechanical pencil, and the other some sort of a puppet. If we can get some dates and locations, we may be able to take a closer look at this claim. At the time L'Illustrazione Italiana published its photograph of the booby-trapped toys on 22 May 1943, almost all of the USAAF bombing raids were in southern Italy. The fact that the toy bombs were reported in the areas of Rome and Modena, and that there were two distinctly different types of toy bomb, suggest that either the use of boobytrapped toys, or the fascist propaganda claim, was part of a sustained effort.
Dear Rob, sorry if i waste your time but maybe this link can be interesting.Rob - WSSOB wrote:....but apparently fascist propaganda never changes and never dies, - the same old lies just get recycled by the despot du jour.
Please spare us any more of this BS. You're wasting our time.
http://www.storia900bivc.it/pagine/edit ... io282.html
Infact in this partisan link we can read how much was bad and illiberal the censure of the fascist regime against the newspaper of the province of Biella and Vercelli.
In this long list we can read :
Si ricorda la disposizione categorica di non interessarsi ulteriormente in alcun modo sino a nuovo avviso di penne stilografiche esplosive e di altri oggetti insidiosi lanciati da aerei nemici su territorio italiano.
Vercelli, 4 giugno 1943-XXI
in my bad english = We remember the absolute proibithion for write about pen bombs or any other dangerous trap that arrive from enemy airplane in the italian territory.
This dispositon was ordered for no make panic in the Italian population.
Luca
Ps i hope that someone will able to traslate it exactly Thank You.
Re: ...
Dear Miller,Michael Miller wrote:Yes, something more than speculation and folklore is called for here. U.S. Army Air Force bomber crews have been accused of a disgusting crime- specifically targeting children for mutilation and murder. For this to be anything but an accusation we need real documentation in the form of an official order or a photo of what is clearly a U.S. manufactured explosive pen or toy.
~ Mike
nobody here accused nobody or claim any ...lurid claim... as Thompson write.
As usually, someone ask, and someone, if is able, reply.
For example i no claim that these traps was manufactured in usa, i claim that arrived in Italian territory from usa airplanes.
Concern your ask of show official orders...im italian, i can show eyewitness or childrens mutilated...maybe some usa Member will able to show official orders.....
Luca
In the link of the antifascist man interview he say that he go out of the city when the air raids start to be really a lot and in the Vooorst message he no inform about any datation. So for the moment is difficult any temporal location of the facts, but appear obvious that was in different places and in different time, infact i live in the extreme north border and also here is well know fact, as in all Italia.David Thompson wrote:Luca -- Thanks for the additional detail. From the descriptions it appears that there were at least two types of these toy bombs -- one resembling a pen or mechanical pencil, and the other some sort of a puppet. If we can get some dates and locations, we may be able to take a closer look at this claim. At the time L'Illustrazione Italiana published its photograph of the booby-trapped toys on 22 May 1943, almost all of the USAAF bombing raids were in southern Italy. The fact that the toy bombs were reported in the areas of Rome and Modena, and that there were two distinctly different types of toy bomb, suggest that either the use of boobytrapped toys, or the fascist propaganda claim, was part of a sustained effort.
Luca