"Seidler-De Zayas list" of American war crimes
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TrauerMensch -- You wrote:
You also wrote:
H&WC Section Rules
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962
This was recognized sixty or seventy years ago. See http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 313#418313Finally it is also recognized that "we bad Germans" were not only offenders but also victims!
You also wrote:
While I agree, we try to avoid low forms of speech here.Let us pray to God that this shit doesn´t happen again!
H&WC Section Rules
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962
Due to the nature of war there will be occasional war crimes, and there will be prepretrators and victims on both sides.TrauerMensch wrote:Thanks David! Finally it is also recognized that "we bad Germans" were not only offenders but also victims!
However, in reviewing the grand sum of all "war crimes" in WWII, there is no parity among the Western Allies and Germany when one considers the scope of German war crimes against civilians in all the occupied countries, and against POWs in the east.
The image of the "bad German" is based on this fuller picture, and not on the more narrow one of war crimes that the Germans and Americans committed against one another on the battlefield.
To compare German and American war crimes is a classic example of apologetics for Nazi Germany.
The thought of the occasional American war crimes against the Germans is not keeping Americans up at night.TrauerMensch wrote:I like it as his grandchild, that the American population is sensitized for this misdemeanour!
One of your grandfathers was killed and another one blinded while fighting for a criminal regime engaged in a criminal enterprise. That is what you need to reflect on before concerning yourself with sensitizing others.
Penn44
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Patriotism is often used by unscrupulous men and unscrupulous regimes, and has been throughout history in every country. Let's get back to the topic -- does anyone have more sourced information on these allegations?One of your grandfathers was killed and another one blinded while fighting for a criminal regime engaged in a criminal enterprise. That is what you need to reflect on before concerning yourself with sensitizing others.
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Yes You are right! You wrote:
We shouldn´t forget that both sides were criminals!David Thompson wrote:Patriotism is often used by unscrupulous men and unscrupulous regimes, and has been throughout history in every country. Let's get back to the topic -- does anyone have more sourced information on these allegations?One of your grandfathers was killed and another one blinded while fighting for a criminal regime engaged in a criminal enterprise. That is what you need to reflect on before concerning yourself with sensitizing others.
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Our readers are looking for sourced information on war crimes allegations, and the revival of this thread isn't giving them any. Further off-topic posts will be deleted pursuant to the topicality warning posted at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 30#1067730
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Sorry! I have written something Wrong! My opinion was not to be revalued our failure in which I had pulled others into the dirt! I didn´t want to excuse the millionfold murders at Jews! My question is rather, what can we learn for the future? And Am I a bad human because some of my family members had been in the the party? I am finally their grandchild! I hadn´t murdered someone myself! And I had never been a Dachau attendant myself! What shall my generation do?
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TrauerMensch -- Calm down and read the topicality warnings. The H&WC section is one of the research areas of the forum, where the vast majority of our readers are interested in sourced information on historical problems rather than general opinions. Our readers aren't getting any additional, sourced information on the alleged war crimes being discussed in this thread. That's what we're looking for.
The answer to your question "what can we learn for the future?" is to investigate and prosecute war crimes. Every army has criminals in it, and leaving them unpunished only encourages more criminal acts. This fact is well understood, and for that reason nations rarely apologize for the acts of individual criminals. When committing crimes becomes a national policy, however, it's time for a regime change followed by national apologies. The longer the crimes go on, the worse it is for everyone concerned. As a famous Chinese philosopher once said, "If you make a mistake, do not hesitate to correct it."
This thread is about allegations of specific war crimes, and our readers are interested in getting more information on them. If you have sourced and specific information on the allegations mentioned here, please post it. If you don't, you can take comfort in the fact that most of our readers here are well-informed on the general subject of war crimes, and generally disapprove of them without regard to what uniform the criminals were wearing at the time the crime was committed. Consequently, no further comment is necessary or desirable.
The answer to your question "what can we learn for the future?" is to investigate and prosecute war crimes. Every army has criminals in it, and leaving them unpunished only encourages more criminal acts. This fact is well understood, and for that reason nations rarely apologize for the acts of individual criminals. When committing crimes becomes a national policy, however, it's time for a regime change followed by national apologies. The longer the crimes go on, the worse it is for everyone concerned. As a famous Chinese philosopher once said, "If you make a mistake, do not hesitate to correct it."
This thread is about allegations of specific war crimes, and our readers are interested in getting more information on them. If you have sourced and specific information on the allegations mentioned here, please post it. If you don't, you can take comfort in the fact that most of our readers here are well-informed on the general subject of war crimes, and generally disapprove of them without regard to what uniform the criminals were wearing at the time the crime was committed. Consequently, no further comment is necessary or desirable.
Re: Seidler-De Zayas list of American war crimes
If this entry in the list is anything to go by then I do not trust the research and/or motives of the author. I think forum member Rob (robwssob) proved beyond doubt that the whole story about the shooting of 346 wounded Wiking soldiers is a fabrication.David Thompson wrote:(17) Dachau concentration camp: On 29 Apr 1945 346 severely injured patients at the Dachau military hospital, along with nurses, doctors, kitchen personnel and others were killed by American machine-gun fire. The SS personnel were not part of the concentration camp cadre, but belonged to the 5th Training Battalion of the "Wiking" Division. (KL-Dachau (29. 4. 1945): 346 Schwer- und Schwerstverwundete des Dachauer Kriegslazarettes, sowie Schwestern, Arzte, Küchenpersonal u.a. durch amerikanische MG-Salven ermordet. Die SS-Leute gehörten nicht zu der Stammannschaft, sondern zum Ausbildungs-Btl. 5 der Division „Wiking”.)
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A post from TassosTz, which had absolutely nothing at all to with with this thread, now has a thread of its own at:
Stalin and Hirohito
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=121855
Stalin and Hirohito
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=121855
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Harro -- You wrote:
The US 45th Infantry Division at Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1161
Massacre of SS POWs at Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43919
Murder of Dachau guards
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8497
Dachau guards
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=39246
April 30- The Day U.S. Troops Liberated Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t
I agree. Interested readers may find these threads helpful:If this entry in the list is anything to go by then I do not trust the research and/or motives of the author. I think forum member Rob (robwssob) proved beyond doubt that the whole story about the shooting of 346 wounded Wiking soldiers is a fabrication.
The US 45th Infantry Division at Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1161
Massacre of SS POWs at Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43919
Murder of Dachau guards
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8497
Dachau guards
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=39246
April 30- The Day U.S. Troops Liberated Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t
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Re: Alleged orders from Americans not to take POWs for a week
My uncle was a US Combat Engineer who fought in the Battle of the Bulge. HE told me that HIS unit never took another German POW after they HEARD about Malmedy. They didn't need any orders, they just stopped taking prisoners. Any German who surrendered during a fight was killed on the spot. The rest were "shot trying to escape." The officers stopped having them bring in prisoners they wanted to question. They had friends who had been murdered at Malmedy and others who had received severe interrogations. Their goal was to kill every Nazi in Germany. Who can blame them?Panzermahn wrote:After the Malmedy massacre committed by the men of the Kampfgruppe Peiper, it was ALLEGED that the Americans issued official orders not to take any SS or Paratroopers as POWs for a week..
I would like to know whether this is a myth or a fact...i hope anyone can share any information regarding this without any fighting which we see quite frequently happen in this thread nowadays
Re: Alleged orders from Americans not to take POWs for a week
What was your uncles Engineer unit?
Regards
Andy H
Regards
Andy H