"Seidler-De Zayas list" of American war crimes

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
TrauerMensch
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#16

Post by TrauerMensch » 05 Jun 2007, 00:12

Let us pray to God that this shit doesn´t happen again! I´ll tell my father about this site! Good Night! My other Grandpa was wounded! (He was blind [but he wasn´t wounded by the Americans][I mean he fought at the “East front”!])

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#17

Post by David Thompson » 05 Jun 2007, 01:57

TrauerMensch -- You wrote:
Finally it is also recognized that "we bad Germans" were not only offenders but also victims!
This was recognized sixty or seventy years ago. See http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 313#418313

You also wrote:
Let us pray to God that this shit doesn´t happen again!
While I agree, we try to avoid low forms of speech here.

H&WC Section Rules
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962


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Penn44
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#18

Post by Penn44 » 05 Jun 2007, 05:00

TrauerMensch wrote:Thanks David! Finally it is also recognized that "we bad Germans" were not only offenders but also victims!
Due to the nature of war there will be occasional war crimes, and there will be prepretrators and victims on both sides.

However, in reviewing the grand sum of all "war crimes" in WWII, there is no parity among the Western Allies and Germany when one considers the scope of German war crimes against civilians in all the occupied countries, and against POWs in the east.

The image of the "bad German" is based on this fuller picture, and not on the more narrow one of war crimes that the Germans and Americans committed against one another on the battlefield.

To compare German and American war crimes is a classic example of apologetics for Nazi Germany.
TrauerMensch wrote:I like it as his grandchild, that the American population is sensitized for this misdemeanour!
The thought of the occasional American war crimes against the Germans is not keeping Americans up at night.

One of your grandfathers was killed and another one blinded while fighting for a criminal regime engaged in a criminal enterprise. That is what you need to reflect on before concerning yourself with sensitizing others.

Penn44

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#19

Post by David Thompson » 05 Jun 2007, 05:58

One of your grandfathers was killed and another one blinded while fighting for a criminal regime engaged in a criminal enterprise. That is what you need to reflect on before concerning yourself with sensitizing others.
Patriotism is often used by unscrupulous men and unscrupulous regimes, and has been throughout history in every country. Let's get back to the topic -- does anyone have more sourced information on these allegations?

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#20

Post by TrauerMensch » 05 Jun 2007, 15:14

Yes You are right! You wrote:
David Thompson wrote:
One of your grandfathers was killed and another one blinded while fighting for a criminal regime engaged in a criminal enterprise. That is what you need to reflect on before concerning yourself with sensitizing others.
Patriotism is often used by unscrupulous men and unscrupulous regimes, and has been throughout history in every country. Let's get back to the topic -- does anyone have more sourced information on these allegations?
We shouldn´t forget that both sides were criminals!

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#21

Post by TrauerMensch » 05 Jun 2007, 15:27

We should do only one action! We should apologize mutually! And we should forgive ourselves and our ancestors! May They rest in peace! We should also remind, that such a thing never happens again!

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#22

Post by Penn44 » 05 Jun 2007, 15:59

TrauerMensch wrote: We shouldn´t forget that both sides were criminals!
The liberated countries certainly do not believe so. This is a bad case of apologetics.

Penn44

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#23

Post by David Thompson » 05 Jun 2007, 16:39

Our readers are looking for sourced information on war crimes allegations, and the revival of this thread isn't giving them any. Further off-topic posts will be deleted pursuant to the topicality warning posted at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 30#1067730

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#24

Post by TrauerMensch » 05 Jun 2007, 20:16

Sorry! I have written something Wrong! My opinion was not to be revalued our failure in which I had pulled others into the dirt! I didn´t want to excuse the millionfold murders at Jews! My question is rather, what can we learn for the future? And Am I a bad human because some of my family members had been in the the party? I am finally their grandchild! I hadn´t murdered someone myself! And I had never been a Dachau attendant myself! What shall my generation do?

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#25

Post by David Thompson » 05 Jun 2007, 20:51

TrauerMensch -- Calm down and read the topicality warnings. The H&WC section is one of the research areas of the forum, where the vast majority of our readers are interested in sourced information on historical problems rather than general opinions. Our readers aren't getting any additional, sourced information on the alleged war crimes being discussed in this thread. That's what we're looking for.

The answer to your question "what can we learn for the future?" is to investigate and prosecute war crimes. Every army has criminals in it, and leaving them unpunished only encourages more criminal acts. This fact is well understood, and for that reason nations rarely apologize for the acts of individual criminals. When committing crimes becomes a national policy, however, it's time for a regime change followed by national apologies. The longer the crimes go on, the worse it is for everyone concerned. As a famous Chinese philosopher once said, "If you make a mistake, do not hesitate to correct it."

This thread is about allegations of specific war crimes, and our readers are interested in getting more information on them. If you have sourced and specific information on the allegations mentioned here, please post it. If you don't, you can take comfort in the fact that most of our readers here are well-informed on the general subject of war crimes, and generally disapprove of them without regard to what uniform the criminals were wearing at the time the crime was committed. Consequently, no further comment is necessary or desirable.

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Harro
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Re: Seidler-De Zayas list of American war crimes

#26

Post by Harro » 05 Jun 2007, 22:14

David Thompson wrote:(17) Dachau concentration camp: On 29 Apr 1945 346 severely injured patients at the Dachau military hospital, along with nurses, doctors, kitchen personnel and others were killed by American machine-gun fire. The SS personnel were not part of the concentration camp cadre, but belonged to the 5th Training Battalion of the "Wiking" Division. (KL-Dachau (29. 4. 1945): 346 Schwer- und Schwerstverwundete des Dachauer Kriegslazarettes, sowie Schwestern, Arzte, Küchenpersonal u.a. durch amerikanische MG-Salven ermordet. Die SS-Leute gehörten nicht zu der Stammannschaft, sondern zum Ausbildungs-Btl. 5 der Division „Wiking”.)
If this entry in the list is anything to go by then I do not trust the research and/or motives of the author. I think forum member Rob (robwssob) proved beyond doubt that the whole story about the shooting of 346 wounded Wiking soldiers is a fabrication.

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#27

Post by David Thompson » 05 Jun 2007, 22:42

A post from TassosTz, which had absolutely nothing at all to with with this thread, now has a thread of its own at:

Stalin and Hirohito
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=121855

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#28

Post by David Thompson » 06 Jun 2007, 02:45

Harro -- You wrote:
If this entry in the list is anything to go by then I do not trust the research and/or motives of the author. I think forum member Rob (robwssob) proved beyond doubt that the whole story about the shooting of 346 wounded Wiking soldiers is a fabrication.
I agree. Interested readers may find these threads helpful:

The US 45th Infantry Division at Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1161
Massacre of SS POWs at Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43919
Murder of Dachau guards
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8497
Dachau guards
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=39246
April 30- The Day U.S. Troops Liberated Dachau
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t

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Re: Alleged orders from Americans not to take POWs for a week

#29

Post by truthteller » 18 May 2008, 12:01

Panzermahn wrote:After the Malmedy massacre committed by the men of the Kampfgruppe Peiper, it was ALLEGED that the Americans issued official orders not to take any SS or Paratroopers as POWs for a week..

I would like to know whether this is a myth or a fact...i hope anyone can share any information regarding this without any fighting which we see quite frequently happen in this thread nowadays
My uncle was a US Combat Engineer who fought in the Battle of the Bulge. HE told me that HIS unit never took another German POW after they HEARD about Malmedy. They didn't need any orders, they just stopped taking prisoners. Any German who surrendered during a fight was killed on the spot. The rest were "shot trying to escape." The officers stopped having them bring in prisoners they wanted to question. They had friends who had been murdered at Malmedy and others who had received severe interrogations. Their goal was to kill every Nazi in Germany. Who can blame them?

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Andy H
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Re: Alleged orders from Americans not to take POWs for a week

#30

Post by Andy H » 18 May 2008, 14:38

What was your uncles Engineer unit?

Regards

Andy H

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