Captured Helferinnen used as sex slaves?

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Apocalypse_Now
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Post by Apocalypse_Now » 07 Apr 2004 00:14

Kunikov and Heinz Van Noon -- If either of you have figures and sources on the rapes, let's see them. It might be a good idea to collect the various estimates and references in one place.
David,

I'm working on it.

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Post by David Thompson » 07 Apr 2004 00:14

Thanks Heinz.

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Post by xcalibur » 07 Apr 2004 00:43

I know this has been brought up before (see Fraulein Valkyrie's post above) but it is relevant in trying to determine the actual number to distinguish between a number that represents only reported rapes and one that includes an estimate of unreported ones.

In the case of the latter, it would be very interesting to see the information that forms the basis for the estimate.

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Post by Apocalypse_Now » 07 Apr 2004 00:51

I'm really trying hard to piece together some information, however, I have a quick question, does anyone know if the Russian archives are available on-line for examination?

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Post by Kunikov » 07 Apr 2004 00:54

Heinz VanNoon wrote:I'm really trying hard to piece together some information, however, I have a quick question, does anyone know if the Russian archives are available on-line for examination?
Depends on what you want, can you read Russian?

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Post by Apocalypse_Now » 07 Apr 2004 01:06

Depends on what you want, can you read Russian?
I can read Russian at a very low level, however, my friend at work is fluent and would gladly translate any documents or texts.

If you have access to anything from Russian state files/archives regarding acts of rape in Eastern and Central Europue, or counter measures put in place to combat rape durring WW2 please contact me by PM, or e-mail what you have to: [email protected]


It would be very much appreciated as I would like to create a post that shows as much details as we can muster regarding statistic's of incidents of rape committed on European women by the Red Army. Also, I have no interest in taking a "side", I just want to get some direct info from good sources, as I believe Beevors book is a questionable source, that has got really high acclaim, and I feel uncomfortable with his book and it's accounts.

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Post by Kunikov » 07 Apr 2004 01:08

Heinz VanNoon wrote:
Depends on what you want, can you read Russian?
I can read Russian at a very low level, however, my friend at work is fluent and would gladly translate any documents or texts.

If you have access to anything from Russian state files/archives regarding acts of rape in Eastern and Central Europue, or counter measures put in place to combat rape durring WW2 please contact me by PM, or e-mail what you have to: [email protected]


It would be very much appreciated as I would like to create a post that shows as much details as we can muster regarding statistic's of incidents of rape committed on European women by the Red Army. Also, I have no interest in taking a "side", I just want to get some direct info from good sources, as I believe Beevors book is a questionable source, that has got really high acclaim, and I feel uncomfortable with his book and it's accounts.
You want too much, I'll ask my friend tomorrow how much he knows about all this and where to look.

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Post by Apocalypse_Now » 07 Apr 2004 01:10

You want too much, I'll ask my friend tomorrow how much he knows about all this and where to look.
Well, whatever you can get would be a great help.

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Post by Vikki » 07 Apr 2004 05:59

Heinz and Konikov,

What the two of you can find could be a very important response to a very hotly contested question. I have to admit that I’m generally sympathetic to, if a little suspicious of, Beevor’s rendition, because of the many personal accounts I’ve read. But it would be nice to have some hard facts and figures, from primary sources, on the topic---either way.

As a side note in reference to Xcalibur’s post about unpublished accounts of rape, and at the risk of sounding like one of those all-too-familiar “I read somewhere….” posters, I have read once an account of a doctor during the occupation of Berlin. It stuck in my mind because he (she?) commented on the very large number of cases of venereal disease in German women they treated (implied that the women were infected in the course of rape), without sufficient drugs, compared to the number of reported cases of rape in the area. And I’ll be damned if I can lay my hands on the source, now that I need it. I’m still searching…..

As for Penn44’s and Tom’s comments, a perhaps late thank you for your interest and understanding of my version of the subject.

And as for Penn44’s post:
I appreciate the time and effort you gave in making your reply.

Have you published the results of your research?

Penn44
I feel that I owe it to him to reply, if maybe (for him) “posthumously”?

No, they’re not published…..yet (?). Most of my conversations with German women of the period have centred on other topics, and in the main they’re probably not “sensational” enough to think of publishing them. Just about what life was like then---but important, to me at least, none the less. And as I’ve said, rape and that sort of thing came up as a very much a side topic.

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Post by Kunikov » 07 Apr 2004 16:00

Fraulein Valkyrie wrote:Heinz and Konikov,

What the two of you can find could be a very important response to a very hotly contested question. I have to admit that I’m generally sympathetic to, if a little suspicious of, Beevor’s rendition, because of the many personal accounts I’ve read. But it would be nice to have some hard facts and figures, from primary sources, on the topic---either way.

As a side note in reference to Xcalibur’s post about unpublished accounts of rape, and at the risk of sounding like one of those all-too-familiar “I read somewhere….” posters, I have read once an account of a doctor during the occupation of Berlin. It stuck in my mind because he (she?) commented on the very large number of cases of venereal disease in German women they treated (implied that the women were infected in the course of rape), without sufficient drugs, compared to the number of reported cases of rape in the area. And I’ll be damned if I can lay my hands on the source, now that I need it. I’m still searching…..
It isn't that simple, even if large numbers did have venereal disease that doesn't mean that they were necessarily raped, any of them could have had sex for bread, shelter, protection, or a number of other reasons and then claimed to have been raped, how could one check?
Last edited by Kunikov on 07 Apr 2004 16:07, edited 1 time in total.

fknorr
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Post by fknorr » 07 Apr 2004 16:05

Kunikov wrote:It isn't that simple, even if large numbers did have venereal that doesn't mean that they were necessarily raped, any of them could have had sex for bread, shelter, protection, or a number of other reasons and then claimed to have been raped, how could one check?
They could've gotten it from toilet seats too, right Kunikov?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Kunikov
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Post by Kunikov » 07 Apr 2004 16:08

fknorr wrote:
Kunikov wrote:It isn't that simple, even if large numbers did have venereal that doesn't mean that they were necessarily raped, any of them could have had sex for bread, shelter, protection, or a number of other reasons and then claimed to have been raped, how could one check?
They could've gotten it from toilet seats too, right Kunikov?

:roll: :roll: :roll:
No, I don't think there were any toilet seats in Berlin.

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Post by fknorr » 07 Apr 2004 16:51

Kunikov wrote:No, I don't think there were any toilet seats in Berlin.
Odd, they were there before the Russians arrived...we'll have to think of another way that all those women (from Liberated territory in the east to the occupied zone in the west), somehow came up w/all those pregnancies, cases of VD and all those reports of rape....

hmmmmmmm

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Kunikov
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Post by Kunikov » 07 Apr 2004 16:57

fknorr wrote:
Kunikov wrote:No, I don't think there were any toilet seats in Berlin.
Odd, they were there before the Russians arrived...we'll have to think of another way that all those women (from Liberated territory in the east to the occupied zone in the west), somehow came up w/all those pregnancies, cases of VD and all those reports of rape....

hmmmmmmm
Since the nice German army needed some female companionship on their retreat west into the hands of the allies, I think we can all assume they were responsible.

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Post by David Thompson » 08 Apr 2004 06:27

Rape is a serious subject, and a criminal act. Treat it that way or don't post here.

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