Ground penetrating radar - revisionist claim

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dennis1313
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Post by dennis1313 » 25 Jul 2007 22:02

hello,
why doesnt anybody ask these holocaust denyers where 6,ooo,ooo+ jewish victims,plus the millions of other victims went to?these people were alive in early 1939,and then had dissapeared by 1945!lets see what fairy tales they come up with?

dennis

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lisset
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Post by lisset » 28 Jul 2007 12:03

I think Faurission was asked to account for the disappearance of people..."Where are they now ?"
he did admit that he did not know and then ststed that they were not dead , he thne offerred to help the relatives of those who had any missing family members.
i]What a nice man[/i] :roll:

Krege has not written up his findings , they have not been reviewed by any experts - inspite of Fred Toben's stating that they have - the study was unsupervised , unauthorised , and was above all totally disrespectful to the dead.

This lack of respect galls me even more than does the denial aspect - but then again it is one of the same thing.

swordofthelord
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Post by swordofthelord » 31 Jul 2007 16:36

Forgive for sounding naive, but it seems the argument that is being made is that there should be somewhere close to 800,000 victims buried here. I am new to this, so do the survivors say that the nazis dug up all the bodies and burned them or are they still there? As I understand it the victims were shot, gassed, or hung and then taken out and buried in the fields around the camp. Then the nazis dug them up to hide the evidence from the soviets and burned them? Did I get it right?

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Post by David Thompson » 31 Jul 2007 17:42

swordofthelord -- That's the way I understand it. For one first-hand account see "A Year in Treblinka", chapter 9, at http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm

For additional sources of information, a Google search yielded almost as many references as the camp had victims:

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=e ... afe=images

Ship of Fools
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Post by Ship of Fools » 31 Jul 2007 18:32

sword,

The dead were all or nearly all supposed to be buried in a part of the camp called the Death Camp (as opposed to the Camp of the Living) in a number of mass graves generally given as 25 meters by 50 meters by 10 meters deep.

This link gives a brave attempt at some calculations
http://www.holocaust-history.org/Trebli ... ixd2.shtml
From this essay on various matters relating to Trebinka
http://www.holocaust-history.org/Treblinka/

Some maps here may help orientate you
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/maps.html

The ashes are generally held to have been reburied at the site. My understanding is that Mr Krege and his backers believe that simply the disturbance of the soil to 10 meters or so deep should be detectable by GPR. I have no experience in this technique, but the claim does not seem farfetched.

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Post by David Thompson » 31 Jul 2007 22:21

Ship of Fools -- You wrote:
The ashes are generally held to have been reburied at the site.
What is/are your source(s) for this generalization?

You also wrote:
My understanding is that Mr Krege and his backers believe that simply the disturbance of the soil to 10 meters or so deep should be detectable by GPR. I have no experience in this technique, but the claim does not seem farfetched.
Do you have a link to Mr. Krege's final report for our readers?

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lisset
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Post by lisset » 01 Aug 2007 02:35

David Thompson
Do you have a link to Mr. Krege's final report for our readers?
Does antone have a link - there is a video floating around the internet which does claim that the results were sent to experts and that the out come was confirmed.
So far no one knows who these "experts" were and Krege's report - it seems to be hard to get .
For something which is supposed to be scientific it does not being presented as such. If anything propaganda would seem to be a more likely case.
Forgive me for being a little sceptical regarding Krege's "report" , but like so many other "reports" I doubt that it is worth the paper which it may not even be written on.

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Zebedee
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Post by Zebedee » 01 Aug 2007 14:00

Could I ask if someone would be willing to copy the text of the linked article to this thread? I currently have to use public access computers and that particular website is unobtainable under the 'hate and intolerance' clauses.

Many thanks,

Zeb

swordofthelord
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Post by swordofthelord » 01 Aug 2007 14:42

That is very interesting, some of those survivors stories are vivid. Isn't it illegal to do research on any of the camp grounds? What would this claim mean if it's true? Could they have looked in the wrong place?

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Georg_S
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Post by Georg_S » 02 Aug 2007 05:24

swordofthelord wrote:Forgive for sounding naive, but it seems the argument that is being made is that there should be somewhere close to 800,000 victims buried here. I am new to this, so do the survivors say that the nazis dug up all the bodies and burned them or are they still there? As I understand it the victims were shot, gassed, or hung and then taken out and buried in the fields around the camp. Then the nazis dug them up to hide the evidence from the soviets and burned them? Did I get it right?
Yes that was how it was, RFSS gave the order that every known massgrave in German territory (and occupied) would be digged up and that the evidence would be destroyd. He gave the job to SS-Staf Paul Blobel (former Einsatzgruppe Kdr) his new Sonderkommande got a name ( a number) but at the moment I have forgot it.
It wasn´t only at Treblinka they digged up the graves.

Best reg.

Georg

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Penn44
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Post by Penn44 » 02 Aug 2007 05:42

Georg wrote: He gave the job to SS-Staf Paul Blobel (former Einsatzgruppe Kdr) his new Sonderkommande got a name ( a number) but at the moment I have forgot it. Georg
Sonderkommando 1005

Penn44

.

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Post by Ship of Fools » 02 Aug 2007 18:44

Although Sonderkommando 1005 was not involved, but possibly the arrival of Herbert Floss, who may have had some connection with that group.

David Thompson you asked
Ship of Fools -- You wrote: Quote:
The ashes are generally held to have been reburied at the site.

What is/are your source(s) for this generalization?
It is from the Arad's book on the Aktion Reinhart camps. As I understand it is not a generalisation but a historical fact, to the best of our knowledge.
You also wrote: Quote:
My understanding is that Mr Krege and his backers believe that simply the disturbance of the soil to 10 meters or so deep should be detectable by GPR. I have no experience in this technique, but the claim does not seem farfetched.

Do you have a link to Mr. Krege's final report for our readers?
My comment was for the benefit of SwordoftheLord who may have believe that intact bodies were being detected or not detected. Regarding the soil disturbance being detectable, I have no personal expertise in that matter, however the fact that Krege believes he can detect soil disturbances can be taken from the ety article linked to earlier.

I do not have a copy of a report from Richard Krege so can not help you in that regard. If people are interested they can send me a message where I can provide them with his phone number so that suitably serious and respectful individuals can discuss the matter with him in person.

For the person who asked for the video link, from a denier site it is this. It may be illegal to access this video in certain jurisdictions. If in doubt please consult your local authorities or proceed at your own risk.

http://www.codoh.info/video/treblinka.mpg

I agree with that person, that the chances of any report or data being sent to unidentified experts seems slim to me.

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Sam H.
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Post by Sam H. » 09 Aug 2007 03:56

Ship of Fools

Perhaps you could ask Mr. Krege when he plans on publishing? Who else was on his team? What training he and they had with GPR? What experts from around the world he has consulted? etc.

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Georg_S
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Post by Georg_S » 09 Aug 2007 06:16

Penn44 wrote:
Georg wrote: He gave the job to SS-Staf Paul Blobel (former Einsatzgruppe Kdr) his new Sonderkommande got a name ( a number) but at the moment I have forgot it. Georg
Sonderkommando 1005

Penn44

.
Thanks Penn44

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Post by Ship of Fools » 09 Aug 2007 18:35

Perhaps you could ask Mr. Krege when he plans on publishing? Who else was on his team? What training he and they had with GPR? What experts from around the world he has consulted?
If you send me a private message I would be happy to give you his telephone number and address and you can discuss these pertinent issues with him yourself.

Regarding training, depending on the nature of the equipment very little training may be necessary, I myself use a number of quite specialised technical equipment in my work with no formal training certification and 15-20 minutes on the job instruction.

Quite likely all it requires is to press a button and roll it over the soil and the data is collected.

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