Information about Pre-planned Soviet Mass Rape's in Berlin

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Roberto
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Re: Information about Pre-planned Soviet Mass Rape's in Berl

#16

Post by Roberto » 30 Jul 2002, 22:22

Ovidius wrote:No, but there were Communists. The nationality doesn't matter, a Communist is always a Communist, just like the wolf remains forever a wolf, even dressed in a sheepskin
See, Ovi, that's what I also think of them.

And of your beloved National Socialists as well.

The ease with which former Nazis became good Communists in the former GDR shows how close to each other both systems are - or how
much the fanatics and opportunists who adhere to them are alike.

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Re: Information about Pre-planned Soviet Mass Rape's in Berl

#17

Post by Ovidius » 31 Jul 2002, 00:51

Roberto wrote:The ease with which former Nazis became good Communists in the former GDR
...at least those who survived the Soviet massacre until the peace had been settled... :mrgreen:
Roberto wrote:shows how close to each other both systems are
A glance at how life in USSR and in the Third Reich(once on August 31, 1939 - last day of peace, and second time in early 1945, at the peak of the Soviet military power and Germany's weakest moment) looked like, doesn't support this view :mrgreen:
Roberto wrote:much the fanatics and opportunists who adhere to them are alike.
Or how much other fanatics or opportunists in our days, who offer $10,000 for an "Estonian Nazi" head, are alike. Neither Hitler nor Stalin nor Churchill did extract their men from thin air, they had been there all the time and they will be there forever. :mrgreen:

~Ovidius


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Re: Information about Pre-planned Soviet Mass Rape's in Berl

#18

Post by Ovidius » 31 Jul 2002, 01:03

Roberto wrote:Harassment bombing of enemy troops – how frightfully shocking. I’d call it a legitimate military tactic.
Maybe this will shock you, but I find the Allied massacre-bombings of Germany slightly more acceptable than harassment night bombing. :mrgreen:

Strafing of supply columns, of trains, bombing of factories, carpet bombing of cities, have a sort of military purpose: denying of supplies to the troops, denying the supplies to the population and killing many citizens in the hope they will attempt a rebellion and sack the enemy government - thing which the Brits had known from the rebellions in fall of 1918 and attempted it during WWII. It's a sleazy thing, but at least has some weird justification behind it(at least for Caldric & Co :mrgreen: )

But those Po-2 "Nuisance Bombers" had no military purpose. They could not destroy a target, not even one the size of an automobile. They could not kill people, or at least not enough to make a difference. They do not shorten the war by a minute. Their only purpose is to scare, to create fear, panic, white nights and terror. They are more or less the equivalent of the bombs set by terrorists.

Now I expect a reasonable argument that I'm not right, something else than the perpetuous "National Socialist" mocking.

~Ovidius

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#19

Post by Xanthro » 31 Jul 2002, 03:31

Ovidius wrote:If our dearest friend Roberto jumps (again) with his theory of the "savages that ran amok before the NKVD police troops stopped them for good", I'm going to ask him the same question I've asked so many times before, and he played deaf:

How does he explain the huge difference between the behavior of Soviet troops in other (Eastern) European countries, where they committed far less acts of violence(and seldomly rape/murder, mostly theft/plundering) and their behavior in Germany?

~Ovidius

PS I'm eager to read an answer 8O
I'll answer that question, because rape is about force and power, it's not about the release of sexual tension.

There was less hate toward German allies and conquered areas, as there was toward Germany, thus, you will have more rapes against Germans.

Plus, there is less incentive for officers to maintain discipline against a foe they've come to hate.

Xanthro

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#20

Post by Panzermahn » 31 Jul 2002, 09:57

Some the crimes against the German POWs and civillians..most of it were mentioned in the book Verbrechen an der Wehrmacht and Kriegsgruel der Roten Armee by Professor Seidler


ATROCITIES IN SICILY

(1943) Many massacres of prisoners of war were committed by the American 45th (Thunderbird) Division during the invasion of Sicily in 1943. At Comise airfield, a truck load of German prisoners were machine-gunned as they climbed down on to the tarmac, prior to be air-lifted out. Later the same day, 60 Italian prisoners were cut down the same way. On July 14, thirty six prisoners were gunned down near Gela by their guard, US Sergeant Barry West. At Buttera airfield, US Captain Jerry Compton, lined up his 43 prisoners against a wall and machine-gunned them to death. West and Compton were both arrested and convicted of murder. They were sent to the front where both were later killed in action. On April 29, 1945, units of the 45th. liberated the concentration camp of Dachau where more atrocities were committed.



REMAGEN
After the capture of the Remagen Bridge, the US Army hastily erected dozens of Prisoner of War cages around the bridge-head. The camps were simply open fields surrounded by concertina wire. Those at the Rhine Meadows were situated at Remagen, Bad Kreuznach, Andernach, Buderich, Rheinbach and Sinzig. The German prisoners were hopeful of good treatment from the GIs but in this they were sadly disappointed. Herded into the open spaces like cattle, some were beaten and mistreated. No tents or toilets were supplied. The camps became huge latrines, a sea of urine from one end to the other. They had to sleep in holes in the ground which they dug with their bare hands. In the Bad Kreuznach cage, 560,000 men were interned in an area that could only comfortably hold 45,000. Denied enough food and water, they were forced to eat the grass under their feet and the camps soon became a sea of mud. After the concentration camps were discovered, their treatment became worse as the GIs vented their rage on the hapless prisoners. In the five camps around Bretzenheim, prisoners had to survive on 600-850 calories per day. With bloated bellies and teeth falling out, the died by the thousands. During the two and a half months (April-May, 1945) when the camps were under American control, a total of 18,100 prisoners died from malnutrition, disease and exposure. This extremely harsh treatment at the hands of the Americans resulted in the deaths of over 50,000 German prisoners in the Rhine Meadows camps, in the months after the war ended.
It must however be borne in mind that with the best will in the world it proved almost impossible to care for the prisoners under the strict terms of the Geneva Convention. The task of guarding these prisoners, numbering around 920,000, fell to the 40,000 men of the US 106th. Infantry Division. The Remagen cage was set up to accommodate 100,000 men but ended up with twice that number. On the first afternoon 35,000 prisoners were counted through the gate. About 10,000 of these required urgent medical attention which in most cases was completely absent. All roads leading to the camps were clogged with hundreds of trucks bringing even more prisoners, sent to the rear by the advancing 9th.US Army. Tourists, cruising down the Rhine today can pick out a small memorial and plaque built on the site of the former POW cage. In the Remagen cemetery there are 1,200 graves and at Bad Kreuznach, 1,000 graves.

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THE BIG LIE Just how many German POWs died in Allied camps?. For over forty years we have been told that many hundreds of thousands of German soldiers had died in Soviet prison camps while at the same time keeping quiet about the number of prisoners who had died in American, French and British camps. In 1997, around 1.1 million German soldiers were still officially listed as missing. According to the recently opened Soviet archives, which have been proved to be extremely precise and detailed, the Red Army captured 2,389,560 German soldiers. Of these, 423,168 died in captivity. In October, 1951, the West German government stated in the United Nations that 1.1 million soldiers had not returned home. In other words, we were led to believe they had died in Soviet camps. If we subtract the proven number of deaths in Soviet camps from the missing in Germany we arrive at the figure of around 677,000. Where are these men?. They must have been interned by the western Allies, the greatest majority being held in American and French camps where they died in their hundreds of thousands through deliberate starvation, disease and hard work.


THE DACHAU KILLINGS
(April, 1945) The Dachau Concentration Camp, near Munich, was liberated by US forces on the 29th.of April, 1945. First to enter the camp and confront the horror within was Private First Class John Degro, the lead scout of I Company, 3rd. Battalion, 157 Infantry Regiment, 45th Division of the 7th Army. Prior to entering the camp, the troops had come upon a train of thirty nine cattle trucks parked just outside the camp. The train had come from Auschwitz in Poland after a journey of thirty days. The trucks were filled with the corpses of 2,310 Hungarian and Polish Jews who had died from hunger and thirst. Enraged, the Americans rounded up most of the SS guard complement of 560 men, hundreds of whom had already deserted. Included in the round-up was a detachment from the 5th.SS Panzer 'Viking' Division sent to Dachau earlier to maintain security and replace those who had deserted. Guarded by angry GIs, they were lined up against a wall to await the appearance of their commander, SS Obersturmfüher Heindrich Skodzensky. When he appeared, dressed immaculately with polished boots, and giving the military salute, which was ignored by the US company commander, Lt.William Jackson who ordered "Line this piece of shit up with the rest of 'em over there". The GIs lost control and began shouting 'Kill em, kill em'. Filled with murderous rage and with tears streaming down his face, one GI of the 15th Infantry Regiment, US 45th Division, opened fire with his machine-gun. After three bursts of raking fire, a total of 122 SS men lay dead or dying along the base of the wall. A few of the camp inmates, dressed in the familar striped clothing and armed with .45 caliber pistols, then walked along the line of dead and dying guards and administrated the coup de grace to those still alive. Forty other guards were killed by revengful inmates, some having their arms and legs torn apart. At another site near the SS hospital, 346 German guards were machine gunned to death on the orders of 1st Lt. Bushyhead, the executive Officer of I Company, 3rd Battalion. Altogether, a total of 520 persons, acting as camp guards, and including many Hungarians in German uniforms, recently returned from the Eastern Front, were executed that day. The sad fact is that many of these guards were new arrivals at the camp and were not the real culprits, the truly guilty had already fled.
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THE WEBLING ATROCITY
(April, 1945) On the same day that the Dachau Concentration Camp was discovered, a massacre took place in the little hamlet of Webling, about ten kilometres from the camp. A Waffen -SS unit had arrived at the hamlet, which consisted of about half a dozen farm houses and barns, to take up defensive positions in trenches dug around the farms. Their orders were to delay the advance of the American tanks and infantry of the 7th.US Army which was approaching Dachau. The farms, mostly run by women with the help of French POWs, came under fire on the morning of 29th.April causing all inhabitants to rush for the cellars. One soldier of the US 222nd. Infantry Regiment of the 42nd Rainbow Division, was killed as they entered the hamlet under fire from the Waffen-SS unit. The first German to emerge from the cellar was the owner of the farm, Herr Furtmayer. He was promptly shot dead. Informed by the French POWs that only civilians were in hiding, the GIs proceeded to round up the men of the SS unit. First to surrender was an officer, Freiherr von Truchsess, heading a detachment of seventeen men.The officer was immediately struck with a trenching tool splitting his head open. The other seventeen were lined up in the farmyard and shot. On a slight rise behind the hamlet, another group of eight SS were shot. Their bodies were found lying in a straight line with their weapons and ammunition belts neatly laid on the ground. This would suggest that the men were shot after they surrendered. Altogether, one SS officer and forty one men lay dead as the infantry regiment proceeded on their way to Dachau. Next day the local people, with the help of the French POWs, buried the bodies in a field to be later exhumed by the German War Graves Commission and returned to their families.


Dresden. (February 13/14, 1945). RAF and U.S.A.F. bombers devastated the German city of Dresden in the most concentrated incendiary attack of the war. In all, 733 British bombers and 311 US Flying Fortresses dropped 771 tons of bombs on the city. At least 35,000 lives were lost in the fire-storm which engulfed the city and destroyed eleven square miles of its center. The raid was requested by the Russians to support their drive from Breslau. Thousands of British and American prisoners were on work detail in the city from the large POW camp Stalag IVb at nearby Muehlberg. Around 200,000 refugees from the east were camped in the city's 'Grosser Garten'. It was estimated that about 1,300,000 people were in the city as the raid started. The toll would have been much higher had not some bomber crews, knowing that thousands of refugees were in the city, deliberately jettisoned their bomb loads wide of the mark. It is doubtful that the air attack on Dresden shortened the war by even one day. Churchill said 'The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing'.




GANG RAPE IN NEMMERSDORF

Just inside the east German border with Poland, the town of Nemmersdorf was the first to fall into the hands of the victorious Red Army. Overrun by General Gatlitsky's 11th Guards Army, his soldiers set about raping, looting and killing with such ferocity that eventually discipline had to be restored to force the soldiers back to fighting the war. From buildings, Russian signs were hanging which read ' Soldiers! Majdanek does not forgive. Take revenge without mercy!'. When the Soviet 4th Army took over the town five days later, hardly a single inhabitant remained alive. Women were found nailed to barn doors after being stripped naked and gang raped, their bodies then used for target practice. Many women, and girls as young as eight years old, were raped so often and brutally that they died from this abuse alone. Children were shot indiscriminately and all those trying to flee were crushed to death under the treads of the tanks. Forty French prisoners-of-war were shot on the spot as spies after welcoming the Red Army as liberators. In other East Prussian villages within the triangle Gumbinnen-Goldap-Ebenrode, the same scenes were witnessed, old men and boys being castrated and their eyes gouged out before being killed or burned alive. In nearby Metgethen, a suburb of Königsberg, recaptured by the German 5th Panzer Division, around 60 women were found in a demented state in a large villa. They had been raped on average 60 to 70 times a day. In nearly every home, the bodies of women and children were found raped and murdered. The bodies of two young women were found, their legs had been tied, one limb each between two trucks, and then torn apart when the trucks were driven away in opposite directions. Alexander Solzhenitsyn, an ex captain in the Soviet Army, recalls, "All of us knew very well that if girls were German they could be raped and then shot. This was almost a combat distinction" (Details of these, and other attrocities, are contained in the Eastern Documentation Section of the German Federal Archives at Koblenz).



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NAHRENDORF
(Near Hamburg. 1945) A week after the discovery of the Belsen Concentration Camp, a rumour reached the British Army's 'Desert Rats' that the 18th SS Training Regiment of the Hitler Jugend Division, had shot their prisoners at the nearby village of Rather. The 'Rats' were engaged in a fierce battle with the SS defenders in the village of Nahrendorf. Slowly, and in groups, the SS began to surrender. As the noise of battle died away the villagers emerged from their cellars and found the bodies of 42 SS soldiers lying in a shallow grave. The bodies were then interned on a hilltop cemetery near the village. Each year, hundreds of SS veterans visit the cemetery to pay tribute to their fallen comrades whom, they say, were shot in cold blood on the orders of a ‘crazed blood-thirsty British NCO’.


THE BLEIBURG-MARIBOR MASSACRE.

(May, 1945) During the last days of the war, the Croatian armed forces, as well as tens of thousands of civilian refugees, fled towards Austria to escape the wrath of the Yugoslav communist partisans. In Austria, the British army was about to accept their surrender in a field at Bleiburg, on the Austrian-Slovenia border. In this huge open space was crowded an estimated 100,000 Croatian troops and civilian refugees. In the woods surrounding the field, Titoist Partisans had infiltrated and set up defensive positions. As negotiations were proceeding for the Croat troops to lay down their arms, the rattle of machine-gun fire was heard from the woods above. The crowd of troops and refugees, too densely packed to move freely, fell in droves as the machine-guns played their deadly fire back and forth. Within minutes, thousands of bodies lay dead or dying. To add to the horror, hundreds of horses, some still harnessed to their carts, panicked and dragged their wagons over the bodies of the fallen. Those that survived were simply driven back across the border to be dealt with by the waiting partisans. On other parts of the border, masses of Croatian soldiers and civilians were turned back after being disarmed by the British forces. Crammed into trains and military vehicles like sheep, they were told that they were being transported to camps in Italy. At the town of Maribor they were released from the transports and handed over to Tito's partisans, only to be shot down in their thousands in a massacre that lasted over a week. The 17th Partisan Assault Division, under the direction of Serbian officers, carried out the massacre of some 40,000 persons in the Tezen Forest at Maribor. At Sestine, 5,000 were murdered, at Vrgin Most another 7,000 fell to the partisan's bullets. Untold thousands of Serbs and Slovene Home Guard (Domobranci) from the camp at Viktring in Austria were massacred in a most brutal fashion and their naked bodies thrown into a deep chasm at Kocevje after which grenades were thrown in. There were about three of four survivors from this massacre. In total, 12,196 Croats, 5,480 Serbs, 8,263 Slovenes and 400 Montenegrins were handed over to the partisans. It is estimated that around 180,000 Croatian soldiers and civilian refugees were massacred by Tito's communists. Britain and the US relucantly agreed to these transfers but insisted that they should be carried out in an orderly and humane manner. Who was ultimately responsible for the carrying out of these forced repatriations? Winston Churchill had expressly forbidden the sending back of all those unwilling to go. Churchill's political advisor and Resident Minister at Field Marshal Alexander's headquarters, Harold MacMillan (future Prime Minister of GB), is the one that all evidence since unearthed, points to the being the one responsible for the order to force these thousands of soldiers and refugees back into the arms of Tito's communists. Unfortunately his reasons and motives for this shameful behavior of British military authorities have gone to the grave with him.
In 1999, during the construction of the Slovenian section of the Nuremberg to Zagreb Highway, between Pesnica and Slivnica, the bulldozers uncovered an anti-tank ditch containing the skulls of 1,179 Croatian soldiers. This was only in a 60 metre section of the three kilometre long trench.. At the time of the massacres, a state of war existed between Great Britain and Croatia and therefore these victims should have been granted prisoner-of-war status after their surrender and entitled to proper treatment under the Geneva Convention. Thus Britain broke the regulations of the Convention by sending these defenseless beings back to their deaths.



MURDER AT BRONIKI, UKRAINE
On July 1st 1941, around 180 German soldiers of the 2nd and 6th Infantry Regiments and the 5th Artillery Regiment were taken prisoner by the Red Army in the town of Broniki. Most were suffering from battle wounds. Next day, the 2nd of July, advancing Wehrmacht troops discovered 153 bodies in a clover field near the town. All had been brutally murdered. According to the twelve survivors of the massacre, they were taken to the field just off the main road and forced to undress. All valuables such as money, rings, watches as well as their uniforms, shirts and shoes were stolen. Standing there naked, the prisoners were then fired upon by machine guns and automatic rifles. A few managed to escape by fleeing to the nearby woods. Similar reports from other regiments gave rise to the suspicion that the Soviets, in the early stages of the war, were not taking any prisoners. There was a division order, according to which every Russian soldier who shoots twenty German soldiers, received a three day leave pass to go home. He also was decorated and raised in rank.


ATROCITY AT FEODOSIA

(Dec.29, 1941) On the shores of the Black Sea, on the Crimean Peninsula, stands the port city of Feodosia. On the 3rd of November the city was captured by the German 46th and 170th Infantry Divisions. As the attack on Sevastopol was about to take place, most of the German forces were withdrawn to concentrate on the forthcoming battle. Left behind in the city were a small detachment of troops and all the wounded soldiers convalescing in the city's hospitals. On the afternoon Dec.29, the city was bombarded by the Soviet Black Sea Fleet and a landing was made by Soviet marines followed by infantry. On the 18th of January, 1942, after their failure to capture Sevastopol, the German Wehrmacht was able to return an recapture Feodosia. They found that most of the German military personnel had been murdered. Wounded soldiers had been thrown out of the windows of the hospital to make room for Russian wounded. Water was then poured on the near dead bodies and then left to freeze. On the beach, piles of bodies were found where they were thrown from a wall several metres high after being beaten and mutilated, their bodies left in the surf so that the sea water froze and covered them with a sheet of ice. There were some twelve survivors who had hidden in cellars when the Russian troops arrived. Their testimony before a German court of inquiry confirmed that some 160 wounded soldiers were liquidated this way.



THE KORSUN SLAUGHTER
(USSR February 16/17, 1944) During a violent blizzard on the night of Feb.16, five divisions of General Hube's 8th Army, including the 5th SS Division 'Viking' and the Belgian Volunteer Brigade 'Wallonie', made a last desperate bid to break out of the Russian encirclement around the towns of Korsun and Shandrerovka in the lower Dnieper west of Kiev. At 4am, forming up in two columns of around 14,000 each, they flocked into two parallel ravines in the surrounding countryside, and where the two ravines met, the troops then emerged into open country and headed out towards Lysyanka. There, disaster struck as the Soviet troops, under General Konev, were waiting. Soon after 6am, the slaughter began. Soviet tanks drove into the German columns crushing hundreds under their tracks. Fleeing in panic, the troops were then confronted by units of Cossack cavalry who started hacking them to pieces with their sabres, hands were lopped off of those who approached with their arms raised in surrender. There was no time to take prisoners and the carnage continued till it was all over. In the short space of three hours, over 20,000 German soldiers lay dead. Another 8,000, who had fled the scene, were rounded up during the next few days and taken prisoner.



ATROCITIES IN POLAND

Polish Murders

Unable to stem the onrush of German forces during the invasion of their country, Polish soldiers and civilians started fleeing eastwards. It was during this flight to the east that the ethnic German civilians, resident in Poland for many years, received the full impact of the spite and hate stored up in the hearts of the fleeing Polish soldiers and their civilian followers. German houses were entered and the occupants arrested and then murdered. Not all were shot, many were brutally put to death by all sorts of tools and their bodies severely mutilated. As the soldiers left to search for more German houses, their civilian helpers were left behind to plunder and steal and in most cases, to set the house on fire. Many of the German women were raped before being shot. During this retreat to from the west, the Polish soldiers, together with the civilian irregulars, were responsible for the deaths of around 6,000 German civilians. At a later investigation, the testimonies of 593 witnesses established the fact that at least 3,841 named ethnic Germans were murdered by the Poles prior to the full German occupation.

THE GRISCHINO MASSACRE

(Feb 18, 1943) The area of Grischino lies to the north-west of Stalino (now Donets) an important industrial region in the Ukraine. Occupied by German forces, it was recaptured by a Soviet armored division and again recaptured by the German 7th Armored Division during a counteroffensive in February, 1943. What they found was the bodies of 406 German soldiers (POWs), 58 members of the Todt Organization, 89 Italian soldiers, 9 Romanian soldiers, 4 Hungarian soldiers and some civilian workers, Ukrainian volunteers and German nurses. A total of 596 souls had been killed. Most were shot after being dragged from their hiding places in cellars. Many of the bodies were horribly mutilated, ears and noses cut off and genital organs amputated and stuffed into their mouths. Breasts of some of the nurses were cut off, the women being brutally raped. In the cellar of the main train station around 120 Germans were herded into a large storage room and then mowed down with machine guns. It was realized that the 'Russians had killed every single German they had found there'. As with most massacres, there were survivors and in this case, civilian witnesses.


Now u know the brutality of the Bolshevik subhumans...At least the Nazis shot or hang in their ways of murdering innocent people but u just look at these Bolshevik WHO KILLED INNOCENT people by RAPING, SODOMISING, MUTILATION, CUTTING OFF THE GENITALS, chopping off the hands and legs, EYES GOURGING, IMPALING and whatever unspeakable horror the devil can think of...

Did u ever hear any Einsatzgruppen men who chopped of the breasts of Jewish women, raped or sodomized them, gourge the eyes of their victims, mutilate or immolate the genitals of their victims? please tell me coz i'm don't know...All i know that the Nazis killed innocent people but in comparison with the way these Bolsheviks killed people, all i can say they are even more worse than the Nazis

All this information is from the George Duncan's website about Massacres in WW2
Last edited by Panzermahn on 31 Jul 2002, 14:59, edited 1 time in total.

Ovidius
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#21

Post by Ovidius » 31 Jul 2002, 12:05

panzermahn wrote:Now u know the brutality of the Bolshevik subhumans...At least the Nazis shot or hang in their ways of murdering innocent people but u just look at these Bolshevik WHO KILLED INNOCENT people by RAPING, SODOMISING, MUTILATION, CUTTING OFF THE GENITALS, chopping off the hands and legs, EYES GOURGING, IMPALING and whatever unspeakable horror the devil can think of...

Did u ever hear any Einsatzgruppen men who chopped of the breasts of Jewish women, raped or sodomized them, gourge the eyes of their victims, mutilate or immolate the gneitals of their victims?
No, I didn't, but it makes no difference.

Oleg will say these didn't happen, Roberto will say they were private acts of savagery not ordered by superior authorities(although they fell in line with the Communist tactic of spreading panic, which is practically a signature for Communist forces :mrgreen: ) and that it's still better the Soviets and not Germans did win, the rest of the world will say the "Nazis were the worst" and Mr. Spielberg will continue with his "Nazi Robot" characters :mrgreen: , and a certain E. Zuroff will offer $10,000 for an "Estonian Nazi" head, while Caldric & Co will scorn those who offer $20,000 for a Soviet Estonian-killer :mrgreen:

All quiet on the Western Front and no perspective to be otherwise :mrgreen:
panzermahn wrote:All i know that the Nazis killed innocent people but in comparison with the way these Bolsheviks killed people, all i can say they are even more worse than the Nazis
Tell this to Roberto. He still seems to believe the Third Reich was some sort of harsher Soviet Union :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

~Regards,

Ovidius

Roland
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#22

Post by Roland » 31 Jul 2002, 13:52

Ovidius and Panzermahn!

Great posts!

Best regards, Roland.

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#23

Post by Roland » 31 Jul 2002, 14:43

Panzermahn!

I have to mention just one thing - I dont believe that Soviet archives are that precise in this case. I also dont believe that 677 000 german POWs could have died in american and french camps. I am myself survivor of the soviet Gulag, I experianced the conditions in there... I also have no doubt whatsoever that these german POWs died in soviet camps.

Besides that - great posts!

Best regards, Roland.

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#24

Post by Panzermahn » 31 Jul 2002, 15:02

Roland,

u r a survivor from Gulag? When is it? Why did these Bolsheviks sent u to gulag? How do u know all the gulags in Russia had the same condition? Maybe some gulags are better than some...i'm myself not sure..

Please tell me more about urself

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#25

Post by Roland » 31 Jul 2002, 15:29

Panzermahn,

I will gladly tell You more about myself. Thank You for the interest. I will send you personal message soon!

Best wishes, Roland.

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#26

Post by Panzermahn » 31 Jul 2002, 19:42

Thanks Roland,

I hope u can share with me your experience about the brutality of the Bolshevik barbarians so that we, the future generations will never forget the crimes committed by these bolshevik hordes....i'm never meet a survivor from the russian gulag before...

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Roberto
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Re: Information about Pre-planned Soviet Mass Rape's in Berl

#27

Post by Roberto » 31 Jul 2002, 23:44

Ovidius wrote:But those Po-2 "Nuisance Bombers" had no military purpose. They could not destroy a target, not even one the size of an automobile. They could not kill people, or at least not enough to make a difference. They do not shorten the war by a minute. Their only purpose is to scare, to create fear, panic, white nights and terror. They are more or less the equivalent of the bombs set by terrorists.

Now I expect a reasonable argument that I'm not right, something else than the perpetuous "National Socialist" mocking.

~Ovidius
I think you're doing those pretty girls called the "night witches" a great injustice, my dear National Socialist.

They sapped the morale and thus the fighting capability of the enemy troops.

They were an instrument of psychological warfare.

Which of course is something utterly disgusting - at least when applied by those bloodthirsty Bolsheviks.

Even more disgusting than driving those poor Landser nuts by endlessly playing Lili Marlen over huge loudspeakers.

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Roberto
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#28

Post by Roberto » 01 Aug 2002, 00:09

panzermahn wrote:Now u know the brutality of the Bolshevik subhumans...
"Bolshevik subhumans" - looks like we got a little Himmler apprentice with us tonight. The Reichsführer called them Menschentiere, i.e. human animals.
panzermahn wrote:At least the Nazis shot or hang in their ways of murdering innocent people
Or gassed them, or burned them alive, or let them starve death, etc. That's not so bad, really. They just butchered them without having much fun with it most of the time (sometimes they also used them for medical experiments or tried dum-dum ammunition on them, and it's not as if concentration camp guards and capos had not engaged in torture and occasional acts of wanton sadism). That's why they killed so much more efficiently.
panzermahn wrote:but u just look at these Bolshevik WHO KILLED INNOCENT people by RAPING, SODOMISING, MUTILATION, CUTTING OFF THE GENITALS, chopping off the hands and legs, EYES GOURGING, IMPALING and whatever unspeakable horror the devil can think of...
The above says a lot about the sexual fantasies of Mr. Panzemahn. I wonder to what extent he can provide evidence to these contentions. I would be especially interested in evidence that such things happened on a large scale or even systematically and were not just isolated occurrences attributable to perverts such as exist in every army.
panzermahn wrote:Did u ever hear any Einsatzgruppen men who chopped of the breasts of Jewish women, raped or sodomized them, gourge the eyes of their victims, mutilate or immolate the gneitals of their victims?
No, I read they shot screaming and wailing men, women and children at close range, a wonderful spectacle with blood, bone fragments and brain matter flying all over the place. I read they did that to hundreds of thousands of people. And I would like to see some evidence that the folkloristic Bolshevik horrors that obviously appeal to the strange minds of certain people happened on any significant scale, as I already said.
panzermahn wrote:All i know that the Nazis killed innocent people but in comparison with the way these Bolsheviks killed people, all i can say they are even more worse than the Nazis
Yeah, sure. Butchering or starving to death millions of innocents is not nearly as bad as massive rape and occasional acts of sadism. What matters is not that you kill or how many you kill, but how you kill. If you do it without too many folkloristic details that fire up the imagination of certain people, wiping out entire populations and ethnic groups isn't all that bad.

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Benoit Douville
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#29

Post by Benoit Douville » 01 Aug 2002, 04:44

Roberto,

I don't think it was just occasional acts of sadism by the Red Army in East Prussia like you mention. Also the Soviet Union did wiped out a lot of Ukrainians in the genocide in 1932-33:

http://www.infoukes.com/history/famine/


What about Vinnytsia. On May 25 1943 a large team of german professors and international experts started excavating 3 mass murder site of 1937 and 1938 in Vinnytsia. About 20 000 peoples have been murdered by the Soviet NKVD secret police orders from Moscow.

Again you are right. Wiping out 6 millions Jews during the holocaust is probably the biggest tragedy of all time but the Soviet Union did commit murder too and that is my point.

Regards
Last edited by Benoit Douville on 01 Aug 2002, 07:36, edited 1 time in total.

Panzermahn
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#30

Post by Panzermahn » 01 Aug 2002, 06:26

U see, as usual, ur bolshevism manifest in yourself...Look at what the Bolsheviks did in Nemmersdorf, Goldap, Gumbinnen, Vienna, Konigsberg, Feodosia, Bronicki, Tcherkassy, Vitebsk, Mogilev, Byelroussia, Vinnitsia, Katyn, Lvov, Minsk, Dnieper River...I'm not making the facts regarding the mutilation, raping and brutal acts that committed by the Bolsheviks..it happened and only u Bolsheviks praised them for teaching the Germans a lesson...

The Heroic Red Army saved civillization from Nazi Extermination...Go and fly kite!
Last edited by Panzermahn on 01 Aug 2002, 16:31, edited 1 time in total.

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