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Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
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Dan W.
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Post by Dan W. » 04 Aug 2002 14:06

All seven foot Marines? Come on, this is a war story for sure. What was the average height of the Japanese soldier? 5'2"? Somewhere around there? I could believe it if you said they were 6' tall but not 7' tall.

That is just another "urban legend", but I'm not taking anything away from anyone who had to do battle against the Imperial Japanese Army, and especially the Japanese Marines. These guys were incredibly fierce. They made most of their assaults at night. They had phosphorous dots on the backs of their caps so their commnader could see them from behind and direct them. Most of these guys knew it was a one way trip.
And while sadistically cruel to anyone who fell into their hands they were, in turn, completely docile and graceful to their conquerers after the war. And to my knowledge have the 2nd most powerful economy in the world. A most baffling country made up of intelligent and highly skilled workers.

When I visited Japan in 1987 I was virtually ignored on the northern island of Hokkaido, and there were practically no Americans/caucasions there. An insular people as well.

Recon
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Post by Recon » 05 Aug 2002 01:33

Speaking about the Japanese atrocities in World War II...
You have to understand that losing the war was great ashame and loss of face for Japanese. In Asia traditionally the loss of face is the worst thing that can happen and ofter results in severe reactions. For Japanese losing the war resulted in complete shut out after the war. It seems they want to forget the horrible things that happened during the war and it is one of the reasons they are completely pacifist country thesedays. Even in their history lessons the war is quickly passed on and not much details are provided. Younger generations don't know many details about the war, but are raised in very pacifist climate. Even the current army has trendemous difficulty to recruit new personnel.

War veterans are not looked upon very well and they cannot speak much about what happened. There is not many preserved equipment or documentations left from the war as nobody want to keep them. However, there is some interesting information available if to look at right places. Generally speaking Japan's Asian neighbours are often using old war matters as a political stick against Japan to keep the regional economical superpower in it's toes. That's one of the reasons why they surface up so often and among some circles in Japan there is debate about the events of Nanking and the speculation concerns about Chinese history reporting about what happened there.

While it's sure Japan committed war atrocities it can be said about everybody else in that war. Russians managed to kill most of the one million soldier Japanese army they captured in Manchuria. Americans intentionally bombed Japanese civilian population, such as the one raid to central Tokyo where the target area was chosen by the population density. Creating a circle of fire with incendiary bombs it was ensured that no one get's away. How many was killed in that single bombing alone? The American civilian bombing against German and Japanese cities must be the one of the biggest atrocities of World War II right there with the German holocaust camps. Of course, the Japanese remember the horrors of mass bombing and it is one of the few things that seems to be well documented. However, even if the information exists no one speaks about Tokyo, Dresden, Hiroshima and others in loud and negative way.

Because they know they lost the war.

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 05 Aug 2002 01:49

Dan Weakley wrote:All seven foot Marines? Come on, this is a war story for sure. What was the average height of the Japanese soldier? 5'2"? Somewhere around there? I could believe it if you said they were 6' tall but not 7' tall.

That is just another "urban legend".


Ever seen a Sumo wrestler? :D :D :D

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~Ovidius

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David E M
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Post by David E M » 05 Aug 2002 02:05

Dan, I agree, it does sound like an urban legend, however that was the figure that was given to me.
It is known that the Imperial Marines were all over 6 foot and recruited from only the 'Higher Classes'.
As for insularity, this is changing somewhat although it is still possible to go into a store in Tokyo and be totally ignored or try to book a room in a country hotel and be told 'Well, sorry, we are really only for Japanese'.
Miltarism is gaining a comeback, look at what happened at the Yasukuni shrine last week. Modern day Japanese don't think they have anything to appologize for.
cheers.

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Scott Smith
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Selectively Skeptical...

Post by Scott Smith » 05 Aug 2002 02:06

Caldric wrote:
Marcus wrote:I find it interesting that none of the "sceptics" (or what ever the term is) have attacked these claims they way they would if it had been Germans instead of Japanese that were accused.

I think it is like "selective memory", or better put "selective skeptic".

Well, I hadn't even had time to read the thread yet but I was going to do just that. If there is a certain cachet to telling atrocity stories, even to a Japanese TV crew, then someone will do so. All this crap has to be taken with a grain of salt. "Didn't show any remorse," my foot... Making things up is more like it--which is not to say that atrocities didn't happen or that cannibalism doesn't happen when people get hungry. Yankee sailors called it Long Pork.
8O

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Dan W.
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Post by Dan W. » 05 Aug 2002 03:05

Miltarism is gaining a comeback, look at what happened at the Yasukuni shrine last week


What did happen at the Yakusuni Shrine last week? Did the Prime Minister make an official visit? I remember last year he was going to but the outcry from Korea prevented this, I think.

I really am curious as to what happened there

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David E M
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Post by David E M » 05 Aug 2002 03:56

Dan, check this out.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/ ... 43084.html

I am told there were also a few punch-ups with right wing militants that did not get reported.
cheers.

Recon
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Post by Recon » 05 Aug 2002 15:59

David E M wrote:Miltarism is gaining a comeback, look at what happened at the Yasukuni shrine last week. Modern day Japanese don't think they have anything to appologize for.
cheers.


I don't think there is many ordinary middle-class Japanese who agree with "right-wing" politicians of Japan. As it stands for now, Japan will never again build offensive capable military or use force to foreign nations except if under direct attack. The few facists in Japan are useless and regarded as harmless among the general population.

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Gott
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Post by Gott » 05 Aug 2002 22:28

i think japan as a whole did not show any remorse.

i am half-chinese, and i could not forgive and forget what the Japs did to my people even when i'm only half. But here in HK, every teenagers follow japanese shits. J-pop, japanese fashion, etc. i am sick of those HK teenagers walking around with their japanese blah blah blah. they are everywhere, and i always feel like i wanna kick their ass. How can they forget what those japs did to us?!

i could have write a lot of thing of why i hate the japs, but i won't. i hate the japs in the deepest form, because they have no guilt for crimes they did. that's all there is to it.

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 05 Aug 2002 23:01

Well, I hadn't even had time to read the thread yet but I was going to do just that. If there is a certain cachet to telling atrocity stories, even to a Japanese TV crew, then someone will do so. All this crap has to be taken with a grain of salt. "Didn't show any remorse," my foot... Making things up is more like it--which is not to say that atrocities didn't happen or that cannibalism doesn't happen when people get hungry. Yankee sailors called it Long Pork.



Well actually I could believe in almost all of it but the cannibalism, I think there were a couple Japanese POW camp commanders that were accused of it. However, it is very easy to get wartime horror "stories" mixed up with fact. Take for instance that the Japanese said American soldiers were cannibals, and that the Airborne were criminals let out of prisons, of who were murderer's rapist etc.

I doubt anyone will doubt the Barbarism of the Japanese Police and Armed Forces, however, it should be kept within the confines of reality, and not superstition.

However, the original statement by Marcus was a true one, and one that is very realistic, some are zealots at defending the Reich, but stop there.

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 05 Aug 2002 23:05

i think japan as a whole did not show any remorse.

i am half-chinese, and i could not forgive and forget what the Japs did to my people even when i'm only half. But here in HK, every teenagers follow japanese shits. J-pop, japanese fashion, etc. i am sick of those HK teenagers walking around with their japanese blah blah blah. they are everywhere, and i always feel like i wanna kick their ass. How can they forget what those japs did to us?!

i could have write a lot of thing of why i hate the japs, but i won't. i hate the japs in the deepest form, because they have no guilt for crimes they did. that's all there is to it.


After what Japan did to China in WWII and before it, I have complete understanding of your feelings, I have studied the occupation off and on. It was most likely the worse of the Axis powers as far as occupation of enemies go and the treatment of the civilians, Chinese POW's were pretty much shot out of hand.

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Post by Xanthro » 05 Aug 2002 23:58

Yes, it would have been different if the victims were of the same ethnic group that constitutes 94% of the Hollywood writers guild. The crimes were both horrific, but German crimes are kept in the public view, while Japanese crimes simply aren't.


94% of the ethnic group that constitutes the Hollywood writers guild?

What ethinc group would that be? Humans above the age of 20?

Jews don't make up 94% of the people who go to temple, much less 94% of anything else in the US.

Xanthro

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 06 Aug 2002 00:11

What ethinc group would that be? Humans above the age of 20?


:lol:

Don't you wish they would just come out and say what they mean? I mean come on people if you don't like Jews that is fine, but don't make us drag it out of your critic post. :D

Unless of course you live in one of those so-called superior Euro countries were it is illegal to not like something, or even think it... :|

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 06 Aug 2002 00:26

Caldric wrote:Unless of course you live in one of those so-called superior Euro countries were it is illegal to not like something, or even think it...


I have said the same thing, until this spring.

So enjoy the freedom of speech, it won't last long..... :mrgreen:

~Ovidius

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Scott Smith
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Post by Scott Smith » 06 Aug 2002 01:23

Oh, come on now, you guys--everybody knows that "Jews invented Hollywood," not that there is anything wrong with that. In fact, it would be surprising if they did not promote their interests, as the moguls and billionaires like Spielberg, Bronfman, et al see them.
:)

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