Wiking and no prisoners

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both citizen Hans H and the community as a whole. When the time avails itself, you might want to peruse the adjacent AXIS BIOGRAPHICAL RESEARCH section of the forum and review the thread entitled as PETER NEUMANN AND THE BLACK MARCH. The thread was generated on Sunday - December 29, 2002 - 6:37am and its author goes by the nom de plume of Camp Upshur. In general terms, I believe you will find the thread's subject matter relevant to your particular interests. In anycase, I bid you a fine day in the land of the midnight sun.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob

[j.north]

Scott,

Do you understand the Geneva Convention? When you become a signatory to the pow convention you agree to treat all pows (even if their state hasn't signed the convention) with humanity.

Nazi Germany ratified the convention on 21 February 1934. Interestingly, Article 25 made it quite clear that the regulations on the treatment of prisoners were binding on any signatory even if the state it was fighting had not signed the treaty. German justification of its treatment of Soviet prisoners because ‘the Soviet Union had not signed the Convention’ were therefore worthless.

Or are you suggesting Scott that the nazis were free to pick and choose laws as they saw fit?

Here's another example of German abuse of the system - Although Poland had ratified the Geneva Convention of 1929 (independent Poland didn’t exist at the time of the Hague conventions), the Germans quickly found a convenient way to evade their responsibilities towards captured Poles. Dissolving the Polish state, and incoporating the bulk of it into the so-called General-Government, meant that, from the German point of view, Polish soldiers could no longer claim protective status. On 20 November 1939 the Germans declared that Poland ceased to exist and informed Sweden that her services would no longer be needed as Protecting Power to that country. For the Nazis the prisoners of war were mere civilians and were now available for compulsory labour in German war industry. Despite pressure from the International Committee of the Red Cross, 500,000 Poles soon found themselves working as forced labour on German farms and in German factories. Almost 300,000 Yugoslav prisoners received similar treatment in 1941, the Germans selecting Serbs of the disbanded Yugoslav armed forces for labour in the Reich.

I'd be interested in a direct answer. Nazi Germany was responsible for the upkeep of Soviet pows; it chose not to protect them. It acted criminally.

[Juha Hujanen]

Steiner wrote in his Wiking Division history how he had a discussion with his superior General von Wietersheim(XIV Corps) in 4.7.41 of "kommissar order" and they were both strongly against that.How things went on reality is diffrent matter.
Wiking did take prisoners but Waffen-SS did have a reputation.In SD's survey in March 42,public opinion in Germany was that Waffen-SS don't take prisoners.Shooting of prisoners and civilians did happened in Wiking too.I just wrote account of few cases in feldgrau.They are in Waffen-SS section.

Regards/Juha

[Hans N]

Thanks to you all!!

regards

Hans N

[Kampfgruppe Peiper]

REMEBER THAT IT WAS THE RUSSIANS WHO BUTCHERED GERMAN WOUNDED SOLDIERS AND DOCTORS FIRST. THIS LED TO "TOTAL WAR" AGAINST THE RUSIANS. NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT STALIN IGNORED THE GENEVA CONVENTION.

I KNOW THERE ARE MANY BLEEDING HEARTS WHO WOULD SAY THAT THE GERMANS WOULD NOT HAVE ABIDED BY THE CONVENTION ANYHOW, BUT HIS FLIES IN THE FACE OF HISTORY.

IN FACT, POLISH OFFICERS WERE ALLOWED TO KEEP THEIR SWORDS AND WERE TREATED VERY WELL. IT WAS THE RUSSIANS WHO MASSACRED THE POLISH OFFICER CORPS. AND THEN BLAMED THE GERMANS.

DON'T FORGET WHO CONTROLS THE PRESS ANS THUS OFFICIAL HISTORY. AND IT IS NOT GERMANS!!

[Caldric]

Come on Kamp, the orders are clear, the orders are official, the orders were signed and issued prior to the invasion of the USSR. Germany went into the war in the East with specific understanding that it was a war of annihilation.

[Marcus]

DON'T FORGET WHO CONTROLS THE PRESS ANS THUS OFFICIAL HISTORY. AND IT IS NOT GERMANS!!

What?

/Marcus

[Juha Hujanen]

Looks like KG Peippers visit is going to be short one.And if one looks to his posts mayby it's better in that way :roll:

[Roberto]

REMEBER THAT IT WAS THE RUSSIANS WHO BUTCHERED GERMAN WOUNDED SOLDIERS AND DOCTORS FIRST. THIS LED TO "TOTAL WAR" AGAINST THE RUSIANS. NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT STALIN IGNORED THE GENEVA CONVENTION.

I'll give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you're merely a) ignorant and b) too lazy to read previous posts on this thread.

As to Stalin's having "ignored the Geneva Convention" and why that wouldn't have relieved the Germans from their obligation of treating Soviet prisoners of war according to international customary law, read my posts on this thread and the excellent post of Jonathan North.

As to war without mercy against the Russians having resulted from their having "butchered German wounded soldiers and doctors first", here's what Hitler told his generals on 30 March 1941, almost three months before he started his attack on the Soviet Union, about what this war would be like:

[...]The preparedness of the military leadership to take part in the ideologically motivated war of annihilation was scanned by Hitler on March 30, 1941, in a speech of two and a half hours he held before about 250 high officers – the commanders and chiefs of staff of the army groups, armies, army corps and divisions that were to carry out the war in the East – in the Reichskanzlei. Hitler had already attempted to convey the attitude desired by him to high troop commanders before previous campaigns, but never in front of so large an audience. Prior to the Polish campaign he had already announced that the war would be “conducted until the total destruction of Poland with the greatest brutality and without considerations”. At that time, however, the commanders had remained uncertain about the tasks attributed to the SS Einsatzgruppen. On this 30th of March 1941 however, he made clear to the assembled generals with an unprecedented openness what methods he wanted to be employed in the war against the Soviet Union. Chief of the General Staff Halder took the following notes:

[….]
Colonial tasks!
Two world-views fighting each other. Demolishing verdict about Bolshevism, which is equal to asocial criminality. Communism is an enormous danger for the future. We must depart from the standpoint of soldierly comradeship. The Communist is no comrade before and no comrade afterwards. This is a fight to annihilation. If we don’t see it as this, we will defeat the enemy, but in 30 years we will again be faced with the communist enemy. We don’t make war to conserve the enemy.
[…..]
Fight against Russia:
Annihilation of the Bolshevik commissars and the communist intelligence. The new states must be Socialist states, but without an intelligence of their own. It must be prevented that a new intelligence comes into being. A primitive Socialist intelligence is sufficient.
The fight must be conduced against the poison of disintegration. This is not a matter for military tribunals. The leader of the troops must know what this is about. The must lead in the fight. The troops must defend themselves with the means by which they are attacked. Commissars and GPU-people are criminals and must be treated as such.
For this the troops need not come out of the hands of their leaders. The leader must issue his directives in consonance with the feelings of the troops. [Marginal note by Halder: This fight is very much differentiated from the fight in the West. In the East harshness means mildness in the future.]
The leader must require themselves to do the sacrifice of overcoming their considerations.[...]

I translated the above from Christian Streit, Keine Kameraden. Die Wehrmacht und die sowjetischen Kriegsgefangenen 1941-1945, 1997 edition, page 34. Emphases are mine.