SS Totenkopf and SS in Russian captivity

[David Thompson]

An opinion post from Tancred, which added nothing factual to the thread, was deleted by the moderator -- DT.

Tancred -- We don't need that kind of "contribution" here. May God open your eyes to the truth, that this world is full of misery already, and is not improved by more of it. Sufficient is the evil unto the day.

rommel_gaj -- You might consider learning this lesson as well -- guilt is individual, not collective.

[G. Trifkovic]

Then good old Robbie was wrong...

Gaius

[HaEn]

Hi everybody, I just stumbled on this thread again, although I usually make it a habit to stay away from this section. The reason for this is, that:" if you tell a story long enough, loud enough and often enough, someone will believe it, and from there on it will be parrotted many times over" . Now before someone starts spitting venom, again, That is or was happening on both sides of the conflict we now know as WWII.
So: did some soldiers of the "Totenkopf" commit unpardonable crimes ?
In all probability: YES.
Did some soldiers of ANY army do the same ? In all probability YES.
Was the betrayal of the signal corps by THEN U.S. troops, by turning them over to the Soviets, from where MOST never returned a unpardonable behavior of war ? YES.
The excuse that they just had liberated a camp and found all those dead people, is human.
Remember thoug that all those corpses lying around were a result of Typhus and hunger running rampant in the camps.
Given that reasoning , some German troops who committed atrocities could have used the same excuse in the east.
"Two wrongs don't make a right"
Keep in mind: War is not glorious, nor is it righteous, IT STINKS.
H.N.

[Georg_S]

Wasnt the Totenkopf Division the only SS division to fight only the Soviets? They never went to Italy or Normandy. If so, turning them over to the Soviets makes sense.

I apologise for my post about running them over. That was barbaric. The attempts to burnish the SS image or portray them as wronged pushes my buttons.

The SS-T.-Div. Saw their first action during the Campaign against France 1940.

Other division who exclusive fought against the Russians, beside the "Freiwilligen" Divisionen the Waffen-SS, was as example 5.SS-Pz.Div. "Wiking", 11.S-Frw.Pz.Gr.Div. "Nordland"

//Wolf

[izzy]

hi, i believe theTotenkopf were also in france for a short time...appart from the fighting units of the SS a lot of other camp gaurds and killing units wore the totenkopf insignia, not all belonged to the units on the front line. all tared with the same brush but.....

[PFLB]

The Moscow Declaration directed that all suspected war criminals other than major war criminals be sent back to the countries where they had committed their crimes for trial. If this military formation spent the bulk of its time on the Eastern Front putting into operation the same sort of horrid ideology as was realised in the concentration camp system from the unit sprung, I cannot say that I am terribly surprised that they were handed over to the Soviet Union. It would be pertinent to know whether the Soviet Union specifically requested custody of the division and if so, why. By the looks of it, however, it ultimately came down to the terms of the agreement for the surrender of German forces.

[Panzermahn]

According to Edward Peterson the U.S. chose to hand over several hundred thousand German prisoners to the Soviet Union in May 1945 as a "gesture of friendship"

8.^ Edward N. Peterson, The American Occupation of Germany, pp 42, 116, "Some hundreds of thousands who had fled to the Americans to avoid being taken prisoner by the Russians were turned over in May to the Red Army in a gesture of friendship."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_pri ... viet_Union

[izzy]

were there many ss totenkopf who actually came home after Russian captivity and lived a normal life. a great deal of SS changed uniforms before captivety to avoid harsher treatment by the Russians..any proof of better treatment?

[brdc1]

Hi this is a general reply as I am trying to research a bit of my father's history.
He was a panzergrenadier Regiment 6 Theodor Eicke 3.SS-Panzer-Divison "Totenkopf" deployed during August and September 1944 at Modlin (near Warsaw).

He was wounded on 19 September 1944 and sent to various hospitals behind the front lines. He remained hospitalised until July 1945 and therefore managed to avoid surrender to the US Army and subsequent hand-over to the Russians.

He was 19 years old at the time and had been transferred from another (foreign) SS division. He was among the following:[quote][/quote]
These men were more likely to be transfers from other SS divisions or the Luftwaffe, SE Europeans, or 18 year-old conscripts than the “old timers” as wartime documents or post-war Red Cross records indicate. Also, the entire division did not surrender en-masse to the Americans. Quite a few men saw what was coming and took the opportunity to”disappear” and surrender individually to the Americans and were never to be handed over to the Soviets.

Can anyone recommend any particular sources of information? I have Charles Syndor's book and Ian Michael Wood's 'Tigers of the Death's Head' which, although not his Company, has many photos and mentions his Regiment often in the veterans' accounts.

Ideally i would like to get in touch with any surviving veterans - highly unlikely to still be alive, I realise - or any relatives such as myself.

I am researching this purely for family history purposes and to help me answer questions from adult grandchildren and future generations. I have virtually no documents or records relating to this part of my father's life other than a brief military record I obtained from the Deutsche Dienstselle last year. I do not have any photos and would of course be keen to access or view any photos of his Regiment.

Looking forward to hearing from anyone on this forum who may be able to help.

IH - London

[Jan-Hendrik]

Look here!

Jan-Hendrik

[brdc1]

Thank you Jan-Hendrik! I appreciate your reply.

It looks like I need to get a copy of Vopersal's history volume Vb (Wet Triangle).
If the pictures I want to see are going to be anywhere then this seems the most likely place, other than with a veteran's family collection.

Someone asked... is (or was) Vopersal a veteran or a historian?
IH

[Jan-Hendrik]

Both. And he was the archevist for all Waffen-SS Topics! His heritage is avaiable at the BA-MA in Freiburg. Seriously tons of material!!

Jan-Hendrik

[brdc1]

Jan-Hendrik - Thanks for all your help so far, it is very useful.

I found a copy of Vopersal's "Soldaten, Kampfer, Kameraden" Volume 5b for sale but in German of course. I wish I could have got this before my father died as he would have been fascinated to see it.

Do you know if this 5b was one of the volumes translated into English? I do not read or speak German (just a few words), but if it has the information I am looking for I will eagerly learn!

[brdc1]

I ordered the Chalres Trang book in any case as it seems to have many photos as well - plus it is in English.

[KOPERNIK1473]

I wonder what was the fate of totenkopf soldiers who were filmed on jan 6th 1945, prior to the Budapest Konrad offensives,
in the city of Wittring which is 700km west of Budapest, presently on you tube there is a film showing this: [youtube][/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSupm-ZC7o

Apparently they where there as POW's, .