Finnish death camps

Rarog · Post by **Rarog** » 11 Aug 2004 17:41

It's a story about horrors experienced by Russians in the Finnish deathcamps. Unfortunately, in Russian.

http://www.kurier.lt/default.asp?TopicI ... eID=573839

Thousands of our people experienced horrors of Finnish death camps, where the mortality rate was higher than in the most sinister Nazi ghettos.

History can be re-written again and again, but you can't ignore the facts. Winter of 1941-1942 was the most horrible time: the mortality rate in Finnish death camps was even higher than in German ones. Finns didn't use tortures. It was simpler and more frightening: Finns simply didn't FEED their captives* AT ALL.
*Incl. civilians

Finnish collegues agree with the Russian researchers. According to datat of a historian M.-L. Mikkola, who specializes on Finnish death camps, only 1 out of 5 survived them. Most of the captives were starved to death.

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 11 Aug 2004 18:03

Hi Raroc !

That is a lie. 5% of them died because of diseases. Times were rough and medication was lacking.

Children in Finland were sent to Sweden because of the war. Otherwise they would have died too in the same rate.

I am not denying this that there existed camps for those Soviets in Eastern Karelia who where not of Finnish origin as that area was being liberated in Continuation War, in fact no one is Finland is denying this.
The matter has been here in the news several times with interviews of local people who had been in the camp. As you can see in the pic there is a well fed people in the camp. There is an annual celebration of these people who survived this ordeal in the camp in Karelia ( now Russian territory occupied by Russians). It is also well in the news here to keep any right wing politicians in Finland out of the governmental posts, very well organized political game in order to make wartime Finland a big war criminal. Unfortunately an exaggerated lie in details.

Apparently the tribal thinking and ultra nationalistic aims was the reason of this camp being founded in the first place.

Thanks for bringing this documentative pic here where it belongs.

regards,

Juke T

Rarog · Post by **Rarog** » 11 Aug 2004 18:12

Topspeed wrote:
That is a lie.

Source: "Menetetty lapsuus" by M.-L. Mikkola

The author says she was shocked to learn the truth about Finnish death camps

Says only in 1943, when Fins realized that Germany is losing the war conditioned for their captives (civilians!) were made better

Rarog · Post by **Rarog** » 11 Aug 2004 18:13

I am not denying this that there existed a camp for those Soviets in Eastern Karelia

24 death camps, acc. to M.-L. Mikkola

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 11 Aug 2004 18:30

Rarog wrote: 24 death camps, acc. to M.-L. Mikkola

Well they were not death camps. Like I said 5% of the people there died of diseases. They most certainly did not die of lack of food.

This indeed was the harsh reality of the Liberation of Eastern Carelia, which was a Mannerheims "Holy Oath" to the people of Eastern Karealia ( this is area which had not been part of Finland before the Winter War ).
This was the main goal of the Greater Finland thinking that tied finns with the AH:s idea of Lebensraum, except that finns were truly liberating areas of finnish cultural roots in Karealia and Germans were building fresh new Third Reich in areas that never belonged to them in any way. This was really bizarre and nuts. No wonder they lost the war.

This is the one and only WAR CRIME finns did during the war. Definitely nothing to be proud of !

Thanks for putting this all over in this site...no one will be without info now and especially in the finnish section there will be no correction possibility as there is here.

Once more Raroc; JOB WELL DONE to bring it here so that we can correct the misinformation.

It is also a proof of the belief in Finland that Germany without a doubt would be victorious in 1941 and Finland would "finally" get Karelia back with all its people ( except the soviets who had moved there ).

Rarog · Post by **Rarog** » 11 Aug 2004 18:54

http://around.spb.ru/finnish/pietola/pietola10.php

Eino Pietolla (?):

POWs in Finland

The Finnish author writes:

In the first year of war... 14.232 of POWs died, or 76.1% (Higher than in Nazi death camps!!!!!!!!! - Rarog). The total figure is 18.700... the main reason for high mortality rate of POWs in the first year of war was inhuman treatment.

Rarog · Post by **Rarog** » 11 Aug 2004 18:56

Well they were not death camps. Like I said 5% of the people there died of diseases. They most certainly did not die of lack of food.

18.700 of Soviet POWs died in captivity, so Finns got about 375 000 of Soviet POWs?

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 11 Aug 2004 19:18

Rarog,

I am talking about those in transfercamps in East-Carelia. In those camps deathrate due to lack of proper medication and inhumane conditions was 5%. I seriously doubt that Finns had 24 camps in Eastern Karelia.

Finns were shot dead at the site of the capture and those sent to Siberia only 5% made it back. So they rate of death was 95%. 50 % died during the train transfer to Siberia. They were just cleaned out of the trains and left to rot at the railroad side.

There is a hard attempt by hardline communists in Finland to show that we were as cruel as the Germans. I am sure they get their support from Russia and this kinda misinformation is their one and only weapon to fight justice and established system and previous desicions made by finnish leaders in 1941-1944. Very rough and ruthless business, but not totally without a truth.

There was a change that those people in the camps really would have been transferred to Germany, but somehow the mercy of the occupiers won the game and they were kept well fed and poorly medicated until Soviets took over the areas in 1944. Had the Germans won those poor people would have had a tragic end..I am pretty sure, but that did not happen luckily.

Here is the author with a victim ( book is called: LOST CHILDHOOD ):

http://www.tammi.net/asp/empty.asp?P=42 ... =0&C=25039

There are 6000 of those underage prisoners still alive in Russia.
L-M Mikkola is indeed a radical communist...it says in the text !

rgrds,

JT

Rarog · Post by **Rarog** » 11 Aug 2004 19:49

Topspeed,

I don't see your point.

Are you saying that the 76.1% of Russian POWs did not die in the first year of war due to inhumane treatment?

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 11 Aug 2004 20:00

Rarog,

Can you give a total amount of finnish originated people in Soviet Union and how many were perished due to Stalin and NKVD clean ups ?

I recently read a book called : " WE HAVE NO HOME HERE ! ".

Written based on letters and photographs left over of the finnish communist massacred in Siberia. Very appalling to read. The books name is a line written by one of the killed. Problem was that they were communists and they would not have been able to enter 1937-8 Finland either, where they obviously wanted to come. Some of them were expelled from USA or wanted to migrate to dream state of USSR in the thirties.

Juke T

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 11 Aug 2004 20:06

Rarog wrote:Topspeed,

I don't see your point.

Are you saying that the 76.1% of Russian POWs did not die in the first year of war due to inhumane treatment?

No I am saying 5 % of the people in the EAST CARELIAN transfercamps died due to the lack of proper medication. None of them were intentionally killed. I am not talking about prisoners of war but the poor kids in the transfercamp in the finnish occupied territory. This was a fact given when soviet and finnish communists claimed there to have been more dead. There are official figures of those particular transfercamps.

In fact I am not aware of the POWs in Finland in general.

I do know that 2 800 RKKA soldiers taken as prisoners were transferred to Germany to be exchanged to 2000 + finnish originated German captured ex-RKKA soldiers that they hold as prisoners. Those 2 800 did not include these little under age kids in East Karelia...thank God.

Juke T

Rarog · Post by **Rarog** » 11 Aug 2004 20:11

As you can see in the pic there is a well fed people in the camp.

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 11 Aug 2004 20:12

Rarog,

Are you telling me those are finnish held prisoners ? Who are they and where was the picture taken ?
Well like I said inhumane conditions well fed but sick obviously. I am not saying they food has been vitamin rich.

Obviously if those really are from a finnish transfercamp they have not gotten enuf vitamins and some sorta sickness has taken over. I can only say finnish held prisoners were better of than finns in Soviet Union.

Finnish fighterpilot Lauri Pekuri weighed 40 kilos when he came back....sick but happy to be alive.....pure miracle. He was given heated water and a piece of bred daily. Well fed, but he did not eat because he know he'd die of the food, like did most of his cell mates.

JT

Rarog · Post by **Rarog** » 11 Aug 2004 20:13

No I am saying 5 % of the people in the EAST CARELIAN transfercamps died due to the lack of proper medication

Is that what Ms. Mikkola is saying?

The first post refers to the civilian population. WWhat was the mortality rate of civilians?

Topspeed · Post by **Topspeed** » 11 Aug 2004 20:26

Rarog wrote:
No I am saying 5 % of the people in the EAST CARELIAN transfercamps died due to the lack of proper medication
Is that what Ms. Mikkola is saying?

The first post refers to the civilian population. WWhat was the mortality rate of civilians?

No Mikkola says something different. I bet she is opinionated, but of course there is a change that mortality rate has been made to look nicer too.

I have to check on that average mortality rate of the civilians Rarog.

Well finns were in very unlucky position after the war, when no marschal aid was coming and country was putting a big effort to pay back the warpayments. My aunt lost husband and both kids in the 40ies. Mortality was pretty high and like I said a huge amount of kids were in Sweden during the war, some never came back and very few knew how to speak finnish anymore.

JT