Stalin encouraged mass frenzy against Germans

[wildboar]

Oleg wrote-
And that is why so many Soviet soldiers were excuted by their own forces on occupied territory.

Oleg i have strong reason to doubt it since no soviet soldier who commited crimes at nemmersdorf was ever punished here is brief narration of nemmersdorf incident=

The small town of Nemmersdorf, near the Prussian-Polish border, was the first German soil to be conquered by the Soviets. The 11th Guards Army under the command of General Galitsky had held the town for nearly a week, when General Hossbach's decimated, tired and battle weary 4th German Army threw the Soviets out of the town. The scene unfolding in front of the German soldiers' eyes was hard to believe. Almost everyone in the town had been slaughtered. The troops found dead and raped women nailed to barn doors, children shot dead and civilians crushed and smashed to bits and pieces by tanks which had run over them. In their seemingly unsatiable bloodthirst, the crazed 'soldatnia' even killed 40 French prisoners of war, hailing the soldiers of the Red Army as their liberators. These beastly cruelties, which - though war crimes under every jurisdiction - were never investigated

It was all due strong anti-german frenzy whipped by Stalin & Beria

Was any Guilty person involved in nemmersdorf ever punished ? the answer is flat no ,which proves that Stalin whipped strong anti-german frenzy

[Oleg Grigoryev]

Oleg wrote-
And that is why so many Soviet soldiers were excuted by their own forces on occupied territory.

Oleg i have strong reason to doubt it since no soviet soldier who commited crimes at nemmersdorf was ever punished here is brief narration of nemmersdorf incident=

The small town of Nemmersdorf, near the Prussian-Polish border, was the first German soil to be conquered by the Soviets. The 11th Guards Army under the command of General Galitsky had held the town for nearly a week, when General Hossbach's decimated, tired and battle weary 4th German Army threw the Soviets out of the town. The scene unfolding in front of the German soldiers' eyes was hard to believe. Almost everyone in the town had been slaughtered. The troops found dead and raped women nailed to barn doors, children shot dead and civilians crushed and smashed to bits and pieces by tanks which had run over them. In their seemingly unsatiable bloodthirst, the crazed 'soldatnia' even killed 40 French prisoners of war, hailing the soldiers of the Red Army as their liberators. These beastly cruelties, which - though war crimes under every jurisdiction - were never investigated

It was all due strong anti-german frenzy whipped by Stalin & Beria

Was any Guilty person involved in nemmersdorf ever punished ? the answer is flat no ,which proves that Stalin whipped strong anti-german frenzy

First of all how do you know that nobody was punished for Nemmensdorf?
Secondly quote one single document signed by Stalin or Beria that would suggest that they encouraged it.

[Rommel]

oleg you are not being so naive to think that you would get such a document...remember there were NO OFFICIAL documents on holocaust or none had Hitler s signature but you can t deny that holocaust did take place....
and maybe you could enlight me on this subject..."kill them even in their mothers whombs"...as I do not have my information here to check as I am not currently in Romania you could tell where the quote is from...what I know for sure is that is SU propaganda in WW2.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

oleg you are not being so naive to think that you would get such a document...remember there were NO OFFICIAL documents on holocaust or none had Hitler s signature but you can t deny that holocaust did take place....
and maybe you could enlight me on this subject..."kill them even in their mothers whombs"...as I do not have my information here to check as I am not currently in Romania you could tell where the quote is from...what I know for sure is that is SU propaganda in WW2.

Well there was official document on Katyn and on the other hand there was a lot of documents which strictly forbade looting, pillage etc (not that they were always followed but documents were in place; on the other hands German high command issued instructions which did not see such an activities on occupied territories of USSR as crimes). Stalin even officially criticized Erenburg - see his article "Comard Erenburg oversimplifies".



For future refernce:

Argumentum ad ignorantium means "argument from ignorance". This fallacy occurs whenever it is argued that something must be true simply because it has not been proved false. Or, equivalently, when it is argued that something must be false because it has not been proved true. (Note that this is not the same as assuming that something is false until it has been proved true, a basic scientific principle.)

[Gwynn Compton]

Antony Beevor hints that the cases of mass rape and destruction upon the Red Army entry into Germany to the Soviet Propaganda idea that Germany had violated the Russian motherland. However even he is careful not to say it was the reason.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

Antony Beevor hints that the cases of mass rape and destruction upon the Red Army entry into Germany to the Soviet Propaganda idea that Germany had violated the Russian motherland. However even he is careful not to say it was the reason.

By 1945 Soviet soldiers hardly needed any propaganda - he saw with his own eyes what was done to his country.

[StandartenfuehrerSS]

'By 1945 Soviet soldiers hardly needed any propaganda - he saw with his own eyes what was done to his country.'

Briefly put; you have no idea what you are talking about, so you resort to those typical slavonic poetical waxations, the Ochi Chornye and Svyaschennya Voina kind. When I push Ehrenburg's comments under your nose again, all little oleg will do will be weeping.

[Shiva]

'By 1945 Soviet soldiers hardly needed any propaganda - he saw with his own eyes what was done to his country.'

Briefly put; you have no idea what you are talking about, so you resort to those typical slavonic poetical waxations, the Ochi Chornye and Svyaschennya Voina kind. When I push Ehrenburg's comments under your nose again, all little oleg will do will be weeping.

_____________________________________________________________

oleg, how old are you (again) ?

[Rommel]

that is for both sides...I really don t think that Germans did more war crimes than the Soviets or that the Soviets were less cruel...neither of them were innocent angels...fact is that beeing defeated Germany got all the bad publicity while the soviet soldier emerged as the heroic slavic soldier ....yeah

[Oleg Grigoryev]

'By 1945 Soviet soldiers hardly needed any propaganda - he saw with his own eyes what was done to his country.'

Briefly put; you have no idea what you are talking about, so you resort to those typical slavonic poetical waxations, the Ochi Chornye and Svyaschennya Voina kind. When I push Ehrenburg's comments under your nose again, all little oleg will do will be weeping.

Briefly speaking - shut up. I half of my Grandparents were the only one who survived the war out the their families - on both mothers and fathers side. The rest of their brothers and sisters died under wonderful Nazi rule. Some in Kiev some in Pskov region. Shall my accounts of German atrocities which would in you usual manner call lies? http://thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=287 Let see you saying that glorious German army had nothing to do with it was never part of that

[Oleg Grigoryev]

that is for both sides...I really don t think that Germans did more war crimes than the Soviets or that the Soviets were less cruel...neither of them were innocent angels...fact is that beeing defeated Germany got all the bad publicity while the soviet soldier emerged as the heroic slavic soldier ....yeah

That is really easy actually compare number of Soviet civilians who died as a result of war started By Germans to that of German civilians died because of Soviets.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

'By 1945 Soviet soldiers hardly needed any propaganda - he saw with his own eyes what was done to his country.'

Briefly put; you have no idea what you are talking about, so you resort to those typical slavonic poetical waxations, the Ochi Chornye and Svyaschennya Voina kind. When I push Ehrenburg's comments under your nose again, all little oleg will do will be weeping.

_____________________________________________________________

oleg, how old are you (again) ?

I guess Hoffman also wrote something about that too? Where is the Soviet OP Shiva?

[StandartenfuehrerSS]

'Briefly speaking - shut up. I half of my Grandparents were the only one who survived the war out the their families - on both mothers and fathers side. The rest of their brothers and sisters died under wonderful Nazi rule. Some in Kiev some in Pskov region.'

Empty patatoe sack talk. Typical, summing of the dead members of a family in order to get right in any discussion, as old as the streets. Unfortunatly for oleg, the discussion is not about the withering and dying of slavonic individuals, but about the Stalin/propaganda role in the mass-atrocities against the German civilians.

What did you have to say in regards to those aspects? Correct - nothing.

'Let see you saying that glorious German army had nothing to do with it was never part of that'

I can predict your answers from miles away. Please state the passage where I said that the Wehrmacht was never involved in crimes against the Russian population or captured soldiers.

Returning back to the original topic, I will leave you with some of the propaganda the Russian army seems to have swallowed very obiedently, as constatated at Nemmersdorf.

"Es gibt nichts Schöneres für uns als deutsche Leichen. Töte den Deutschen!"

Is what Ehrenburg said in the summer of 1941. Translated for the non-German speaking readers:

"For us, there is nothing more beautiful than German corpses. Kill the Germans!"


»Tötet, tötet! Es gibt nichts, was an den Deutschen unschuldig ist, die Lebenden nicht und die Ungeborenen nicht! Folgt der Weisung des Genossen Stalin und zerstampft für immer das faschistische Tier in seiner Höhle. Brecht mit Gewalt den Rassenhochmut der germanischen Frauen. Nehmt sie als rechtmäßige Beute. Tötet, ihr tapferen, vorwärtsstürmenden Rotarmisten!«

Is another one of those fine speeches by Ehrenburg.

I translated the passage for those who do not speak German:

"Kill, kill! There is nothing to the Germans, what is innocent, not the about the living [Germans], nor about the not yet born ones! Follow the lead of comrade Stalin and kick the fascist animal forever into it's lair. Break with violence the racial vanity of the German women. Take them as your just spoils. Kill, you brave, forwards-storming Red army soldiers!"

Beautiful, isn't it? It seems that paposchka Stalin himself was involved in some kind of anti-German messaging, as was stated previously, and correctly.

If we dissect this speech we get:
* a call to kill German civilians, to kill them
* a call to kill German children, even unborn babies in the mother womb
* raping was obviously enourmously encouraged, as could be expected from the slavonic barbarians from the East

And you, oleg, are defending this pack of frenzy animals?

The matter is clear, you are wrong on all accounts.

[Oleg Grigoryev]

Oh goody 1941 Erenburg speech. Erenburg calls to kill Germans - why would he do that in 1941? Weird little men indeed. You see, Snafu, if you in fact knew what you were talking about you would cite not 1941 propaganda but 1944 and 1945 STAVKA and General Staff directives and orders dealing with treatment of German population (and there was quite a few) or at least cite 1944 or 1945 propaganda - how about "comrade Erenburg Oversimplifies" - got through that one (did you at least tried to find it) ? Now let's see you do that.
To question of your comment to my statement

By 1945 Soviet soldiers hardly needed any propaganda - he saw with his own eyes what was done to his country.

Briefly put; you have no idea what you are talking about

while in fact I do, since I have talked to a lot of Soviet Vets and in fact typical response was something like that "they killed my whole family, burned my hose, I had nowhere to go after the war - why should have I gone easy on them???" - simple as that most of them never even heard of Erenburg. In addition large portion of troops who went into Germany in 1945 was conscribed from occupied territories - how much of Soviet Propaganda did they had in your opinion? Also, I am kind of curious do you ,or prosaic one, seriously believe that whatever Soviet Soldiers saw on the occupied territories had no effect on them? How do you explain reaction of Americans who executed every German POWs in the immediate vicinity of the Dakhau - did they read Erenburg as well?

[Fred]

""Secondly quote one single document signed by Stalin or Beria that would suggest that they encouraged it.""

It´s funny in the year 2002 that people still are defending butchers like Stalin and Beria.