So called "Polish concentration camps".

[Curioso]

Beppo -- You asked:

Where on earth does this misconception come from?

I think its just an imprecise use of English. Because concentration camps happened to be located in Poland, they're called "Polish camps" even though another nation operated or administered them. Unfortunately, the English expression can connote either location or a nationality, or both.

Sure; however, it wouldn't be a terrible effort or a huge increase in space and word count if one said "concentration camps in Poland".

[George56]

"Polish concentration camps" become recently very common across the world.
It is not an isolated case of mistake or imprecise use of English.
The ommision of words "German", "Germany", "Nazis" in this context, is also deliberate.

Explanation is very simple: MONEY
Certain parts of the "Holocaust Industry" are in a proces of preparations for huge legal actions
directed against Polish State and Government.
In 2005 there is no point to mention Germany and Germans, because every possible deutsche mark or later euro, was already squeezed out from this direction.
Communist Poland was not too good even to try to extract a dollar from.
But independent Poland, NATO and EU member - easy target.
Using selective, clever tactics and unscrupulous lawyers, it wll be relatively easy to proof that a few polish criminals served their terms in Auschwitz as kapos - nazi helpers.
A fact is a fact. Big dollars are waiting.

Behind all seemingly innocent "mistakes" are the same people which tried to sue US Government for "not bombing Auschwitz".
They argued that US Air Force could bomb gas chambers in Auschwitz making extermination of Jews at least a bit more difficult. Did you hear about the court case?

Regards to all memers and staff of this Forum.

This is my first post,

George56
Sydney
Down under

[David Thompson]

George 56 -- Welcome to the forum.

Please read the section rules carefully. They're posted at: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962

We don't permit unsourced opinion posts or threads here, because this is a research section of the forum. We discuss historical events, not notions. Please remember this in future posts.

[Gumisie]

Beppo -- You asked:

Where on earth does this misconception come from?

I think its just an imprecise use of English. Because concentration camps happened to be located in Poland, they're called "Polish camps" even though another nation operated or administered them. Unfortunately, the English expression can connote either location or a nationality, or both.

To avoid such connotations nobody uses, for example, the term "Cuban Guantanamo base".
It's an American base, even if it is located in Cuba. For the same reason of clarity, the concentration camps should be described as German, regardless of their location.

[WalterS]

I agree. The death camps, most of which were located physically in Poland, a conquered and occupied nation, were the brainchild of, and run by, the German government. Calling them "Polish" camps implies somehow that the Polish people or government had something to do with them. Of course, they didn't. The proper term, in my view, should be "German Death camps located in Poland."

[David Thompson]

To avoid such connotations nobody uses, for example, the term "Cuban Guantanamo base".

No, and to illustrate the point, the term "Cuban prison" is more frequently used to denote location rather than proprietorship. The element of proprietorship is usually obvious from the context. For example, most people are aware that the prison at Guantanamo is administered by the United States. If the expression was "Cuban Isle of Pines base," it would be a natural assumption to conclude that the prison was administered by the Republic of Cuba. Similarly, not many people would assume that Auschwitz concentration camp was administered by the Polish government, even though it is located within the present-day boundaries of Poland.

[szopen]

Similarly, not many people would assume that Auschwitz concentration camp was administered by the Polish government, even though it is located within the present-day boundaries of Poland.

Quick (though apocryphical) polls made showed that MANY people especially in America however associated Auschwitz with Poland only. E.g. one POlish father reported, that when he asked American children in one class what antionality where tha Nazis, they aanswered "Polish"

[Musashi]

Similarly, not many people would assume that Auschwitz concentration camp was administered by the Polish government, even though it is located within the present-day boundaries of Poland.

Quick (though apocryphical) polls made showed that MANY people especially in America however associated Auschwitz with Poland only. E.g. one POlish father reported, that when he asked American children in one class what antionality where tha Nazis, they aanswered "Polish"

I read the same in a Polish magazine.

[Beppo Schmidt]

E.g. one POlish father reported, that when he asked American children in one class what antionality where tha Nazis, they aanswered "Polish"

that's too ridiculous for words, to the Nazis the Poles were untermenschen. these people need a serious history lesson.

[Marcus]

Quick (though apocryphical) polls made showed that MANY people especially in America however associated Auschwitz with Poland only. E.g. one POlish father reported, that when he asked American children in one class what antionality where tha Nazis, they aanswered "Polish"

I very much doubt the facts (ie that being anything but isolated incidents) behind such claims.

/Marcus

[Gumisie]

Quick (though apocryphical) polls made showed that MANY people especially in America however associated Auschwitz with Poland only. E.g. one POlish father reported, that when he asked American children in one class what antionality where tha Nazis, they aanswered "Polish"

I very much doubt the facts (ie that being anything but isolated incidents) behind such claims.

/Marcus

Not quite isolated: 18% of American high school seniors believe that Germany was an ally during World War II.
2001 poll: http://www.wethepeople.gov/newsroom/amnesia.html

[Marcus]

That particular survey has been discussed here in the past as I recall (centering on how much was lack of historical knowledge and how much was lack of interest in answering the survery properly as well as possible inaccurate use of statistics) and I don't think there was any question about neither the nationality of "Nazis" nor which nation(s) Auschwitz was associated with.

/Marcus

[Gumisie]

That particular survey has been discussed here in the past as I recall (centering on how much was lack of historical knowledge and how much was lack of interest in answering the survery properly) and I don't think there was any question about neither the nationality of "Nazis" nor which nation(s) Auschwitz was associated with.

/Marcus

It's logic: since "Germans were allies", and the Nazis, after all, murdered the Jews, than a question arises WHO were these Nazis. The expression "Polish death camps" construct thus carries a message which can be understood literally by a significant percentage of the population.
As for the survey: should we assume that it was flawed?

[Gumisie]

http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/PressRele ... p?did=1499
"January 30, 2005 - New York - American Jewish Committee Executive Director David A. Harris issued the following statement today:

The American Jewish Committee wishes to express appreciation to Poland for hosting the commemorative event to mark the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau, and gratitude to Polish President Alexander Kwasniewski for his eloquent and stirring words at the ceremony.

We would also like to remind those who are either unaware of the facts or careless in their choice of words, as has been the case with some media outlets, that Auschwitz-Birkenau and the other death camps, including Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor and Treblinka, were conceived, built and operated by Nazi Germany and its allies.

The camps were located in German-occupied Poland, the European country with by far the largest Jewish population, but they were most emphatically not "Polish camps". [emphasis added, G.]

This is not a mere semantic matter. Historical integrity and accuracy hang in the balance.

Poland was the first nation attacked by the Third Reich, which ignited the Second World War on September 1, 1939. Polish forces fought valiantly, but were overwhelmed by the larger and better equipped Nazi army that invaded from the west, and then by the Soviet army, an ally of Hitler at the time, which attacked from the east. Nonetheless, Polish forces in exile continued the struggle against Hitler, together, of course, with other Allied troops, until the war's end. And it should also never be forgotten that, in addition to Polish Jews, who were targeted for total annihilation by the Nazi Final Solution, other Poles, including political prisoners such as Professor Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, who spoke so movingly at Auschwitz on January 27, and who was a key figure in the Polish underground, were also seized by the Nazis and incarcerated in concentration camps.

Any misrepresentation of Poland's role in the Second World War, whether intentional or accidental, would be most regrettable and therefore should not be left unchallenged.

New York, January 30, 2005 "

[Marcus]

It's logic: since "Germans were allies", and the Nazis, after all, murdered the Jews, than a question arises WHO were these Nazis. The expression "Polish death camps" construct thus carry a message which can be understood literally by a significant percent of the population.
As for the survey: should we assume that it was flawed?

The survey is not the important thing in this thread and personally I have no doubt that the main result of the survey is valid: a depressing lack of historical knowledge in the US (the same is most likely true in most other countries too).
Just one quick comment about the 18% question to illustrate the point about inaccurate use of statistics before moving along: The students were faced with a multiple choice question and those who did not know that the USSR was allied to the US during WW2 (and one must consider that the efforts of the Soviets in the fight against the Axis was something not widely discussed in the US outside of the historical circles during the Cold War, at least that is how I understand it) were forced to choose between three Axis nations, so the result does not mean that 18% actually thought Germany was one of the allies.


This said however, few things in modern history is discussed/displayed in culture (including "popular culture"), media etc as much as WW2 and the Holocaust with no shortage of references to Germany and Germans so jumping to conclusions such as "MANY people especially in America however associated Auschwitz with Poland only" is a leap based on very loose foundations, even considering the inprecise use of "Polish" in that context.

/Marcus