Katyn Massacre Documents

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Sergey Romanov
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Post by Sergey Romanov » 06 Mar 2006 18:06

Gentlemen, does anyone here have "Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn" in electronic form?

I know where to get chapter 5 online, but I would like the whole thing.

Thanks in advance.

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henryk
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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by henryk » 10 Aug 2009 20:12

http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/inte ... limed.html
Katyn victims in Kharkov were ‘limed’
10.08.2009 12:10

Secret NKVD documents reveal that thousands of Katyn massacre victims executed in Kharkov were later covered with lime to conceal traces of mass murder.
A letter, branded ‘top secret,’ has recently been found by the Ukrainian Security Service in post-Soviet archives. It reads: “In a forest about 100 metres from Kharkov-Bilgorod road, within a 50-metre radius, are many spots of collapsed earth. The holes are rectangular, 3x6 metres. One of the holes has been dug out and human bones and skulls can be seen. Some of the bones are scattered on the ground. There are also the remains of foreign-made military boots.”
The letter was written by General Vitaliy Nikitchenko to KGB head Yuri Andropov and to Petro Shelest, leader of the Communist Party of Ukraine, on 7 June 1969.
General Nikitchenko, head of the Committee of State Security of the Ukrainian Soviet Republic, further reports that the grave has been dug out by three pupils of fifth and sixth grade from Pyatikhatki. They robbed a gold ring engraved with the initials AK and the date 29 June 1924, gold tooth crowns and military buttons with the image of the Polish eagle.
“It has been established that here in 1940 the NKVD from Kharkov region buried several thousands executed officers and generals of bourgeois Poland, whose remnants have been accidentally discovered by children,” writes Nikitchenko.
Pyatikhatki, along with Katyn and Miednoye, is the burial place of over 3,700 Polish war prisoners executed by the NKVD in 1940 as ordered by Stalin and other Soviet leaders.
In order to conceal the discovery and truth about the mass murder, Nikitchenko proposed announcing that it was Germans who executed deserters from their own army and the allied armies. The General suggested that people be warned that victims who were buried here died of cholera, typhus, syphilis and other infectious diseases. Andropov decided that that kind of disinformation campaign will not be enough, and, in a letter to General Petro Feshchenko from the Kharkov branch of the NKVD, ordered the site destroyed. The burial place in Pyatikhatki was to be surrounded by barbed-wire fence and guarded by 21 men. The remnants of Polish officers were to be destroyed by being covered with lime and the graves were to be filled in. Andropov gave his subordinates four years and 10,000 rubles (220 euro) to do that. (mg/mmj)

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Chinaski1917 » 08 Oct 2009 07:44

KPRF claims it has new documents :

(could someone help out to get a more concrete translation ? and maybe someone could comment on its credibility .)


http://kprf.ru/international/70949.html
Before us lie [kserokopii] based on the originals of the examination of German prisoners of war.

[Khanzen]: “I was randomly located during the therapeutic trip in 1943. in Smolensk… before [Katyni] recently began the opening of graves. Exactly they were going to go beside [Katyn] and me took with itself. When we arrived, us showed officers and Privates (approximately 80 people) as it was possible to assume, before the Polish outfit. They told us that these people, allegedly, were shot by the NKVD. There was there very unpleasant smell, and we remained not long. The opening of graves then only began, and therefore they showed us few corpses. Especially to me it rushed beside the eyes, that the outfit was before the also very good state… We assumed that completely these possible people were shot by Germans themselves, since to almost each it rushed beside the eyes, that the outfit appeared also very new”.

From the report of the chief of 7 divisions of the political administration of the first Ukrainian Front Lieutenant Colonel [Dubrovitskiy]: “Accordingly the report of the deputy military City Commandant Of [zagan] before the political division, the small circle of local residents even with the Fascist regime was known truth about the murders before [Katyni]. Inhabitants learned right situation from former German soldier Valdemar [Glemvits], inhabitant of the city Of [gleyvits], direct participant in the shootings before [Katyni]. [Glemvits] before the conversation with the inhabitant of the city of Otto's [Zagan] [Shtan] it stated: “I do not understand, why for the sake of the shootings they charge Russians. This is lie. Indeed these officers shot our group”.

So that now we will wait the official conclusions of the works of the public commission of the State Duma [FS] RF before “Katyn matter”. But it is even now obvious that the discovery archives will add the proofs in favor of the original version: entire responsibility for the murder of Polish prisoners of war lies exclusively beyond the Hitler army, Soviet side to the mass shootings is absolutely uninvolved.
Перед нами лежат ксерокопии с подлинников допросов немецких военнопленных.

Ханзен: «Я случайно находился во время лечебной поездки в 1943 г. в Смоленске… в Катыни только что начиналось вскрытие могил. Как раз собирались поехать в Катынь и меня взяли с собой. Когда мы приехали, нам показали офицеров и рядовых (примерно 80 человек), как можно было предполагать, в польском обмундировании. Нам говорили, что эти люди, якобы, расстреляны НКВД. Там был очень неприятный запах, и мы оставались недолго. Вскрытие могил тогда только начиналось, и поэтому нам показали мало трупов. Особенно мне бросилось в глаза, что обмундирование было в еще очень хорошем состоянии… Мы предполагали, что вполне возможно эти люди расстреляны самими немцами, так как почти каждому бросилось в глаза, что обмундирование выглядело еще очень новым».

Из докладной записки начальника 7 отдела политуправления Первого Украинского фронта подполковника Дубровицкого: «Согласно донесения заместителя военного коменданта города Заган по политчасти, узкому кругу местных жителей еще при фашистском режиме была известна правда об убийствах в Катыни. Жители узнали истинное положение вещей от бывшего немецкого солдата Вальдемара Глемвиц, жителя города Глейвиц, непосредственного участника расстрелов в Катыни. Глемвиц в беседе с жителем города Заган Отто Штан заявил: «Не понимаю, почему в расстрелах обвиняют русских. Это ложь. Ведь этих офицеров расстреливала наша группа».

Так что теперь будем ждать официальных выводов работы Общественной комиссии Государственной Думы ФС РФ по «Катынскому делу». Но уже сейчас очевидно, что открытие архивов добавит доказательств в пользу изначальной версии: вся ответственность за убийство польских военнопленных лежит исключительно на гитлеровской армии, советская сторона к массовым расстрелам абсолютно непричастна.

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henryk
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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by henryk » 08 Oct 2009 19:45

You are repeating Soviet propaganda which has been disproved. Russia under Yeltsin acknowledged that the NKVD was responsible, as ordered by Stalin, and provided documents which proved this, as shown in messages on this thread.

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Chinaski1917 » 09 Oct 2009 04:52

a) It's not Soviet propaganda it's Stalinist propaganda. Not to mention that Yeltsin wasn't propaganda-free !
b) I'm not repeating anything , I'm just quoting what they said so someone could translate or give a clearer picture of what is cicrculating in Russia. Quoting doesn't mean I agree with them.

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by henryk » 09 Oct 2009 19:01

Chinaski1917 wrote:a) It's not Soviet propaganda it's Stalinist propaganda. Not to mention that Yeltsin wasn't propaganda-free !
At that time Soviet = Stalin.
b) I'm not repeating anything , I'm just quoting what they said so someone could translate or give a clearer picture of what is cicrculating in Russia. Quoting doesn't mean I agree with them.
Sorry.

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Sergey » 21 Apr 2010 08:52

Recently Radio Echo of Moscow exposed (on its site) the official answer to the questions of the ECHR about the Katyn issue.

http://www.echo.msk.ru/blog/echomsk/673415-echo/

Reading the answer I have an impression that Russian side tries (as much as possible) to preserve a status of uncertainty about fate of individuals likely to avoid possible demands for compensations.

The main legal argument reffers to a fact that the events in Katyn happened 10 years before 1950 Convention was adopted and 58 before Russia joined to it. Thus the Katyn issue is beyond the jurisdiction of the ECHR.

The answer reffers to the case with Polish lawer and professor Remigjusz Bierzanek who was placed by the Germans in the list of Katyn victims under #1105 but later appeared alive and unhurt.

It is quite understandable that the Germans were eager to inflate numbers of Katyn victims. In his book prof.Bierzanek wrote how he became 'a victim'. His friends tried in 1943 to check the Germans and said German authorities that Remigjusz Bierzanek missed and soon his name was places in the list of the victims with note that he was 'indentified' by relevant documents.

Now I suppose that real number of Katyn victims was not so huge and the Russian authorities faced a difficult problem. The publication of real lists would likely meet a suspicious reaction and claims that Russian side hides truth.

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Slavomir » 21 Apr 2010 09:39

Sergey wrote:Now I suppose that real number of Katyn victims was not so huge and the Russian authorities faced a difficult problem. The publication of real lists would likely meet a suspicious reaction and claims that Russian side hides truth.
I think it would act just opposite. If it would be added with the full access to the archives for the historians, that would in final take ou the impression that someone is hiding something.

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Kajtmaz » 21 Apr 2010 11:20

Sergey wrote:...Now I suppose that real number of Katyn victims was not so huge and the Russian authorities faced a difficult problem...
http://www.polit.ru/dossie/2008/03/19/katin.html


"The term "Katyn crime" – is a compound (composed) term, it means execution (shooting) in April-May 1940, almost 22 thousand Polish citizens in various camps and prisons NKVD in the USSR" [NKVD ==> KGB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD]

Термин «катынское преступление» – собирательный, он обозначает расстрел в апреле–мае 1940 года почти 22 тысяч польских граждан, содержавшихся в разных лагерях и тюрьмах НКВД СССР:

– 14 552 польских офицеров и полицейских, взятых в плен Красной Армией в сентябре 1939 года и содержавшихся в трех лагерях НКВД для военнопленных, в том числе –

– 4421 узник Козельского лагеря (расстреляны и захоронены в Катынском лесу под Смоленском, в 2 км от станции Гнездово),

– 6311 узников Осташковского лагеря (расстреляны в Калинине и захоронены в Медном),

– 3820 узников Старобельского лагеря (расстреляны и захоронены в Харькове);

– 7305 арестованных, содержавшихся в тюрьмах западных областей Украинской и Белорусской ССР (расстреляны, по-видимому, в Киеве, Харькове, Херсоне и Минске, возможно, и в других не установленных местах на территории БССР и УССР).

Катынь – только одно из целого ряда мест расстрелов – стала символом казни всех вышеперечисленных групп польских граждан, так как именно в Катыни в 1943 году были впервые обнаружены захоронения убитых польских офицеров. На протяжении последующих 47 лет Катынь оставалась единственным достоверно известным местом захоронения жертв этой «операции».
http://www.gzt.ru/topnews/world/-ya-uvi ... 48089.html

http://www.ej.ru/?a=note&id=9925&authors=all

http://www.newsru.com/russia/05mar2005/khatin.html

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Sergey » 21 Apr 2010 13:32

Kajtmaz, I'm well aware about Katyn issue. For many years it is in the focus of Russian mass media.

I pointed to the document - to official answer to the ECHR request and made some suggestions about possible motives.

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Kajtmaz » 21 Apr 2010 13:46

Sergey wrote:Kajtmaz, I'm well aware about Katyn issue. For many years it is in the focus of Russian mass media.

I pointed to the document - to official answer to the ECHR request and made some suggestions about possible motives.
great

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Chinaski1917 » 21 Apr 2010 13:59

Alexander Savenkov commitee has accepted that soviets did it but that it wasn't a genocide



Poland Demands Names of Katyn Culprits

The Polish parliament has passed a resolution that demands that Russia recognize the 1940 Katyn massacre and publish the names of its surviving perpetrators, BBC News reports.

The document states that only a full disclosure of the truth and a condemnation of the war criminals can lead to improved relations between Poland and Russia.

Russian Chief Military Prosecutor Alexander Savenkov said earlier this month that the Katyn criminal case was closed because investigators had not found any evidence of genocide in the killings of Polish detainees by Soviet agents.

Moscow only took responsibility for the killings in 1990 and the investigation of the World War II massacre was completed at the end of 2004. Russian authorities said they were ready to hand over 67 of the 183 case volumes. The other papers contain state secrets, and are not open for study by the Polish side, prosecutors believe.

Poland has subsequently set up its own investigation.

In March 1940 about 22,000 Polish military officers, intellectuals and priests, who had been detained in the former Soviet Union in 1939, were shot by Soviet agents in the Katyn forest, 18 kilometers from Smolensk. The case became widely known in 1943 after Nazi soldiers discovered 4,100 bodies there.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/03/23/ ... land.shtml


ussia only allow Poland to look at very selected files.

Here is more:
Russia’s Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office has finished investigating the so-called Katyn case — the mass execution of Polish officers on Soviet territory — and is ready to hand over all the materials to Poland, Interfax reports.

Chief Military Prosecutor Alexander Savenkov said that criminal case was closed because investigators didn’t find any evidence of genocide in the 1940 Katyn killings.

According to Savenkov, the case consists of 183 volumes, 116 of which contain state secrets. The remaining 67 volumes are open for study and the Polish side has already been informed that Russia is ready to hand them over. During the investigation more than 900 witnesses were questioned and 18 examinations were made, including exhumations.

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/03/11/katynfiles.shtml

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Chinaski1917 » 21 Apr 2010 14:12

On 13th March 2005 leaders of the “Memorial” society sent the following letter to the chief Military Prosecutor’s Office.
To the Deputy General Prosecutor of Russian Federation,
Chief Military Prosecutor of Russia A. N. Savenkov

Dear Mr. Prosecutor,

One of the main directions of the “Memorial” society’s activity is the study of the history of mass political repressions in the former Soviet Union. In particular, for a long time we deal with issues concerning repressions against Poles and Polish citizens. We have issued a number of researches and handbooks of personal character devoted to victims of repressions on this subject. We are constantly addressed by declarants from Poland and other countries; among them are relatives of inmates of the Kozelsk, Ostashkov and Starobelsk NKVD POWs camps and prisons in the western regions of the USSR and BSSR executed in April-May 1940. That is why we are not indifferent to the situation developing now about so-called “Katyn case”.
On 11th March the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office of the Russian Federation held a press-conference devoted to the investigation of the “Katyn case”. Numerous reports about it appeared in Russian and foreign electronic and printed mass-media. However, the text of the Chief Military Prosecutor’s statement wasn’t published. In the existing publications only single quotation from the Statement and evidently from answers to questions are used. It’s hard to get a reliable idea of the pronounced statement using these quotations. At the same time the very fact of the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office’s statement on such issue as Katyn is of exceptional importance.
In this connection we will appreciate much if we could receive the full text of your statement and also the clarification of the following questions concerning the press-conference:
1. What is the date of opening the criminal case, in the framework of which the deaths of the inmates of aforementioned camps were investigated?
2. What were the reason and the exact formulation for opening the case?
3. When and on what ground the study of compliance of the “Katyn case” with characteristics of genocide was included in this case?
4. Was this study split into a separate case as one can guess from the quotation given in several publications: “The criminal case is closed due to the absence of the crime, since the fact of genocide of Polish people didn’t take place either on the state level or in juridical sense”, while in the other quotation the other reason for closing the case is given: “The criminal case in regard to the specific officials found guilty is closed due to their deaths“?
5. What is the normative ground for classification 116 of 183 volumes of the investigation of inmates’ of Kozelsk, Ostashkov, Starobelsk NKVD POWs camps deaths.
6. What is the normative ground for classification of the decision for closing the criminal case against guilty and refusal to make their names public?
7. Does the quotation according to which the deaths of only 1 803 of 14 542 prisoners of the aforementioned camps is reliable established and 22 of them are identified correspond to the genuine text of the Chief Military Prosecutor’s statement?
8. Does the statement given in several publication from which it follows that on the territory of present-day Russia only 10 710 Polish citizens were kept as prisoners and on the territory of Ukriane – only 3 832 correspond to the genuine text of the Chief Military Prosecutor’s statement?
9. Whether are all or only a part of executed for “Katyn case” rehabilitated in accordance with the Russian Federation Law “On rehabilitation of victims of political repressions

Thank you in advance for clarification of the questions mentioned above.

The Chairman of the Administration of the International historical-enlightening, charitable and remedial society “Memorial”
A.B. Roginsky
The Coordinator of the Polish commission of the “Memorial” Society
E. A. Gurianov


The reply was received on 5th April.
The General Prosecutor’s of the Russian Federation Office
The Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office

To the Chairman of the Administration of the International historical-enlightening, charitable and remedial society “Memorial” A. B. Roginsky

Your letter with the request to provide information on the results of so-called “Katyn case” investigation was received and examined by the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office.
I inform you that on 21st September 2004 the Chief Military Prosecutor’s Office closed the criminal case opened on 22nd March 1990 by the prosecutor’s office of the Kharkov oblast’ of the Ukrainian SSR on the fact of discovery in the Kharkov city’s park zone of burial places of Polish citizens which was then handed over to the CMPO where it was accepted for processing on 30th September of the same year.
The investigation have found that Polish citizens kept in the NKVD USSR camps were subject to investigation by NKVD organs under the criminal cases of incriminations in state crimes in accordance with Criminal-Procedural Codex of the RSFSR (1923).
In the beginning of March 1940 as a result of investigation criminal cases were brought for examination to an extrajudicial organ – “trojka” which examined the criminal cases in against 14 542 polish citizens (on the territory of the RSFSR – 10 710 men, on the territory of the USSR – 3 832 men), found them guilty of committing state crimes and made a decision to shoot them.
The investigation has reliably established the deaths of 1803 Polish POWs as a result of execution of trojka’s decisions of them 22 were identified.
The actions of a number of specific USSR officials were qualified as an abuse of their authority which entailed heavy consequences under aggravating circumstances (paragraph “b” Article 193-17 Criminal Codex of the RSFSR (1926)). On 21.09.2005 the criminal case against them was closed according to the paragraph 4, part 1, Article 24 of the RF Criminal-Procedural Codex due to death of guilty.
In the course of investigation on the Polish side’s initiative the version of genocide of Polish people in the period of the events of spring 1940 was thoroughly examined and didn’t met confirmations. Taking this into account the criminal case on genocide was closed due to absence of criminal actions in accordance with paragraph 2, part 1, Article 24 of the Criminal-Procedural Codex of the RF.
The actions of the NKVD SSSR officials in regard to Polish citizens were based on criminal-legal motives and didn’t pursue the goal of extermination of any demographical group.
The criminal case consists of 183 volumes. In accordance with the Russian Federation Law “On State Secret” it was recognized that 36 volumes of the “Katyn case” have attached documents, including the resolution on closing the case of 21st September 2004, which contain information forming a state secret and which have “secret” and “top secret” stamps. Moreover, 80 volumes of the criminal case according to the Commission’s conclusion include documents containing confidential or official information for the restricted circulation and bear the “for official use” stamp, 67 volumes don’t have such stamps.
The Russian Prosecutor’s Office informed the General Prosecutor’s Office of Polish Republic of finishing the investigation on this criminal case and of readiness to provide an opportunity to get acquainted with 67 volumes of the criminal case, which didn’t form a state secret.
In the present time the issue of applying the Russian Federation Law “On rehabilitation of victims of political repressions” to the executed polish citizens is under examination.

The chief of the department for supervision of laws’ on federal security execution
Major general of justice V. K. Kondratiev.

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by David Thompson » 21 Apr 2010 16:10

Thanks, Chinaski1917, for that interesting exchange of correspondence. Where did it come from?

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Re: Katyn Massacre Documents

Post by Chinaski1917 » 21 Apr 2010 16:24

It's been posted in the past :

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &view=next

or just insert Savenkov in the search box.

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