Hello
I am currently reading "Forgotten voices of the Second World War" by Max Arthur published 2004 ISBN 0091897343
It's basically a book of memoirs.
It's in chronological order and at the moment i am up to the end of the war in Europe.
One memoir interests me.
Sounds dubious as i have never heard of it in anyway or form previously.
The memoir in this case is from
Captain John MacAuslan
Intelligence Officer 5th Reconnaissance Regiment
And i quote verbatim
"The most horrifying place in Neustadt was the beach.The Germans had barges into which they had packed prisoners.They then took the ladders away and machine-gunned them.The barges were packed with women and children who had been shot.And there were several hundred children who had been clubbed.The bodies lay in front of us.Little children with their heads caved in.They were tied back to back with cords through their mouths and beaten to death.And not by the SS.These children had been murdered by ordinary German marines."
Anyone else heard of this?
Thanx
Barge Atrocity in Neustadt?
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Pieter Kuiper
- Member
- Posts: 319
- Joined: 14 Jun 2005, 20:12
- Location: Sweden
When? And what Neustadt is this?
I found something about Neustadt = Wladislawa:
I found something about Neustadt = Wladislawa:
http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/brdeng ... eng465.htmMass and individual shootings of several thousand Jews and communists (men, women and children) within an area of approximately 25 km within the Memelland, directly across the former border between East-Prussia and Lithuania, during the first three months after the invasion of the German troops into the Baltics.
Sorry Pieter .
I don't see the connection with my subject?
The nearest thing i can find to what i am talking about is 3 ships(not barges) filled with Concentration Camp prisoners from Neuengamme .
http://www.rrz.uni-hamburg.de/rz3a035/arcona.html
But does'nt come close to whats described above.
I don't see the connection with my subject?
The nearest thing i can find to what i am talking about is 3 ships(not barges) filled with Concentration Camp prisoners from Neuengamme .
http://www.rrz.uni-hamburg.de/rz3a035/arcona.html
But does'nt come close to whats described above.
Wait a minute.
At the bottom of the webpage i posted above.
"On the 2nd May the barges Wolfgang towed by the Adler, and Vaterland towed by the Bussard and several landing craft, bringing a thousand half starved prisoners from the Stutthof concentration camp near Danzig in Poland, arrived in Neustadt. Many had died on the journey and had been thrown overboard. The journey had begun on the 17th April. They received the order via light signal from the U-boat school or from harbour commander Kastenbauer that they were to be towed along-side the Thielbek which had been towed from Lübeck industrial harbour to Lübeck Bay as British tanks had crossed the Herrenbrücke. That evening the SS guards began shooting the prisoners on the barges. The barges, the sea and the shore were full of corpses. Those that managed to reach land were shot by marines from the U-boat school. Around 400 Stutthof prisoners were murdered. The following day the remaining prisoners were led to Neustadt stadium. At 3 p.m. on the 3rd May the prisoners had to form a column and began to leave the stadium when suddenly the Germans disappeared and British tanks appeared in front of them. They were free. The freed Stutthof survivors were then quartered in marine barracks near the stadium. "
At the bottom of the webpage i posted above.
"On the 2nd May the barges Wolfgang towed by the Adler, and Vaterland towed by the Bussard and several landing craft, bringing a thousand half starved prisoners from the Stutthof concentration camp near Danzig in Poland, arrived in Neustadt. Many had died on the journey and had been thrown overboard. The journey had begun on the 17th April. They received the order via light signal from the U-boat school or from harbour commander Kastenbauer that they were to be towed along-side the Thielbek which had been towed from Lübeck industrial harbour to Lübeck Bay as British tanks had crossed the Herrenbrücke. That evening the SS guards began shooting the prisoners on the barges. The barges, the sea and the shore were full of corpses. Those that managed to reach land were shot by marines from the U-boat school. Around 400 Stutthof prisoners were murdered. The following day the remaining prisoners were led to Neustadt stadium. At 3 p.m. on the 3rd May the prisoners had to form a column and began to leave the stadium when suddenly the Germans disappeared and British tanks appeared in front of them. They were free. The freed Stutthof survivors were then quartered in marine barracks near the stadium. "
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Pieter Kuiper
- Member
- Posts: 319
- Joined: 14 Jun 2005, 20:12
- Location: Sweden
OK, so this is about Neustadt in Holstein.
There are many places called Neustadt, and I just quoted the one that I found on http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/Tatortengfr.htm
There are many places called Neustadt, and I just quoted the one that I found on http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/Tatortengfr.htm
Re: Barge Atrocity in Neustadt?
There ay be reegimentall historyy. reply if interested. one relevant paragraph. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obitua ... tuary.html A clue.
Re: Barge Atrocity in Neustadt?
https://dirkdeklein.net/category/allied ... 2-mistake/
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y-L ... dt&f=false
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long ... 02666.html
https://cdn.southampton.ac.uk/assets/im ... %20....pdf
http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Features/ ... tic-174306
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xeW ... do&f=false (mentions 'small concentration camp' - the school presumably')
From these and printed memoirs of !st Mountain Regiment and !st Commando Brigade it seems that the prisoners escaping the barges were held at the school, those escaping from RAF operations were either shot on the beach by SS, Kriegsmarine and possibly Volksturhm personnel of the town or were wandering the country and town. Some captured prisoners from Cap Arcona may have been taken to the school. Subsequently. Mills-Roberts on seeing this took the decision to free the remaining prisoners. So very approximately 1,000 Russian Polish and Jewish ex-prisoners were at large in the subsequent days. An amount of disorder occurred. Mills-Roberts as not confirmed as Brigadier. I don't necessarily connect all these events.
The events in Neustadt and at the Kriegsmarine U-Boat school are partially the result of the sinking of the cap-arcona. The official records of that affair as you may know were locked for 100 years by the British. That is the British records were actually released in 1972 and this may be one reason for the slight historiography and the lack of corroboration in depth of work based on survivor accounts in the 1960's.
Allied air operations, the race with Soviet Troops to the sea, the unknown agenda of the Soviets, Americans and other allies, the condition of the civilian populations the SS and Kriegsmarine high command agenda to leave no witnesses to war crimes alive and/or to distance commanders Donitz and Himmler from association with the camps seem all to be mixed up with each other and the events local to the School and town and on the beach.
It seems to this day there is no appetite to know of this matter from Britain, Germany as governments or peoples or from those representing survivors.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y-L ... dt&f=false
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long ... 02666.html
https://cdn.southampton.ac.uk/assets/im ... %20....pdf
http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Features/ ... tic-174306
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xeW ... do&f=false (mentions 'small concentration camp' - the school presumably')
From these and printed memoirs of !st Mountain Regiment and !st Commando Brigade it seems that the prisoners escaping the barges were held at the school, those escaping from RAF operations were either shot on the beach by SS, Kriegsmarine and possibly Volksturhm personnel of the town or were wandering the country and town. Some captured prisoners from Cap Arcona may have been taken to the school. Subsequently. Mills-Roberts on seeing this took the decision to free the remaining prisoners. So very approximately 1,000 Russian Polish and Jewish ex-prisoners were at large in the subsequent days. An amount of disorder occurred. Mills-Roberts as not confirmed as Brigadier. I don't necessarily connect all these events.
The events in Neustadt and at the Kriegsmarine U-Boat school are partially the result of the sinking of the cap-arcona. The official records of that affair as you may know were locked for 100 years by the British. That is the British records were actually released in 1972 and this may be one reason for the slight historiography and the lack of corroboration in depth of work based on survivor accounts in the 1960's.
Allied air operations, the race with Soviet Troops to the sea, the unknown agenda of the Soviets, Americans and other allies, the condition of the civilian populations the SS and Kriegsmarine high command agenda to leave no witnesses to war crimes alive and/or to distance commanders Donitz and Himmler from association with the camps seem all to be mixed up with each other and the events local to the School and town and on the beach.
It seems to this day there is no appetite to know of this matter from Britain, Germany as governments or peoples or from those representing survivors.
Re: Barge Atrocity in Neustadt?
The most complete single survivors side account seems to be that quoted below. Unfortunately I don't have access to a copy of the book. Nor do I read Polish. I say complete I am not able to judge accuracy. But it does tie together the mentions of the stadium, the school how there came to be so many prisoners.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/muzeum-s ... 488475590/
this source shows 15 prisoner camp in Neustadt until May 1945, but if survivors were held in the hospital hut they built (inside the school?) as it was completely inadequate for te numbers and unfinished that could account for the state that Mills-Roberts found it in
https://www.kz-gedenkstaette-neuengamme ... -holstein/
From Mills-Roberts memoir 'Clash by Night'
after describing the assault and capture of Lauenberg and that two Generals had visited him but did not permit him to be woken while he lay exhausted on a table asleep. He describes being given the order to "go as hard as we could for Neustadt on the Baltic" "were to pay scant attention to our flanks".This was presumably to head off the soviet Red Army for political reasons. After describing finding some escaped prisoners in a wood. he continues thus on page 203:
quote
When we reached Neustadt we saw several sunken ships in the bay and on one of the headlands many corpses of displaced persons were found: they had been dragged ashore from the ships and butchered. When the place looked like being overrun by the Allies these wretched people had been shot by their SS captors. When 6 Commando which was in the lead, arrived on the top of the hill this massacre was still taking place and the Germans, seeing that the tables had been turned, ceased fire and ran towards the new arrivals for protection. A crowd of displaced persons waiting to be butchered
immediately turned on their late captors and swallowed them up - it was about the only time in the war that 6 Commando could not raise a gallop to save a situation.
endquote
after a non-sequitir about post Armistice DP camps he goes on to state the much remembered story of him visiting the "Neustadt concentration camp" and holding up a 'light as a feather' old man and assuring him that the British Army would look after him, only to find later that the man died.
It was sometime around this time that DP camps were started and that one frequent order was that escapees would be shot.
I have one more military eye witness account - to follow.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/muzeum-s ... 488475590/
this source shows 15 prisoner camp in Neustadt until May 1945, but if survivors were held in the hospital hut they built (inside the school?) as it was completely inadequate for te numbers and unfinished that could account for the state that Mills-Roberts found it in
https://www.kz-gedenkstaette-neuengamme ... -holstein/
From Mills-Roberts memoir 'Clash by Night'
after describing the assault and capture of Lauenberg and that two Generals had visited him but did not permit him to be woken while he lay exhausted on a table asleep. He describes being given the order to "go as hard as we could for Neustadt on the Baltic" "were to pay scant attention to our flanks".This was presumably to head off the soviet Red Army for political reasons. After describing finding some escaped prisoners in a wood. he continues thus on page 203:
quote
When we reached Neustadt we saw several sunken ships in the bay and on one of the headlands many corpses of displaced persons were found: they had been dragged ashore from the ships and butchered. When the place looked like being overrun by the Allies these wretched people had been shot by their SS captors. When 6 Commando which was in the lead, arrived on the top of the hill this massacre was still taking place and the Germans, seeing that the tables had been turned, ceased fire and ran towards the new arrivals for protection. A crowd of displaced persons waiting to be butchered
immediately turned on their late captors and swallowed them up - it was about the only time in the war that 6 Commando could not raise a gallop to save a situation.
endquote
after a non-sequitir about post Armistice DP camps he goes on to state the much remembered story of him visiting the "Neustadt concentration camp" and holding up a 'light as a feather' old man and assuring him that the British Army would look after him, only to find later that the man died.
It was sometime around this time that DP camps were started and that one frequent order was that escapees would be shot.
I have one more military eye witness account - to follow.
Re: Barge Atrocity in Neustadt?
"But already German discipline and organising power were being put to work in the Neustadt Kriegsmarine barracks, functioning now as a makeshift concentration camp. Here one of the mountain batteries was grappling with the chaos of over 3,000 displaced persons of 27 nationalities. They must be deloused, clothed, fed, given hope - above all, kept in order to prevent the outbreak of violence and the spread of disease."
Tudor, Geoffrey. Hoofprints in the Clouds - Jeep Tracks in the Mud (Kindle Locations 4464-4466). Pen Press. Kindle Edition.
This being presumably the 'mess' which Major Ruston was to 'sort out'. Mr Tudor also mentions that Russians were the worst behaved prisoners in this regard. MacAuslan was talking about the situationthe British found in whatever part of the U-boat schoo housed the remnants of the Athena 800 or so and the swimmers from Cap Arcona plus presumably others who arrived by other means earlirer but did not find transport to the ships waiting in the bay.
Thus there are a range of sources 3 British and a number of survivor accounts substantiating the beach atrocity, it's 'justification' that prisoners were violent and facilities and staff were inadequate to house them securely and the consequences of these choices in violence in the town once liberated..
From this I think it is fair to maintain an opinion that Prisoners of the Germans from the concentration camps Stuttthof and Neugammen that were released by the British, After which it seems the freed prisoners including those from the concentration camps caused an amount of violent and probablv murderous disorder. Their treatment by SS, regular forces and townspeople and desperate state being the direct cause. Ultimate responsibility for the beach atrocities and the disorder lie with the SS and Kriegsmarine high command, specifically Donitz and HImmler (for ordering the destruction of camp inmates as Holocaust witnesses and for distancing the Kriegsmarine) and Milch. Milch could have and should have known about the position in Neustadt prior to the arrival of the British and should himself as senior ranking officer taken control of the situation. Effectively the the British opened the Kriegsmarine barracks as a DP camp for both German and Allied DP.
Tudor, Geoffrey. Hoofprints in the Clouds - Jeep Tracks in the Mud (Kindle Locations 4464-4466). Pen Press. Kindle Edition.
This being presumably the 'mess' which Major Ruston was to 'sort out'. Mr Tudor also mentions that Russians were the worst behaved prisoners in this regard. MacAuslan was talking about the situationthe British found in whatever part of the U-boat schoo housed the remnants of the Athena 800 or so and the swimmers from Cap Arcona plus presumably others who arrived by other means earlirer but did not find transport to the ships waiting in the bay.
Thus there are a range of sources 3 British and a number of survivor accounts substantiating the beach atrocity, it's 'justification' that prisoners were violent and facilities and staff were inadequate to house them securely and the consequences of these choices in violence in the town once liberated..
From this I think it is fair to maintain an opinion that Prisoners of the Germans from the concentration camps Stuttthof and Neugammen that were released by the British, After which it seems the freed prisoners including those from the concentration camps caused an amount of violent and probablv murderous disorder. Their treatment by SS, regular forces and townspeople and desperate state being the direct cause. Ultimate responsibility for the beach atrocities and the disorder lie with the SS and Kriegsmarine high command, specifically Donitz and HImmler (for ordering the destruction of camp inmates as Holocaust witnesses and for distancing the Kriegsmarine) and Milch. Milch could have and should have known about the position in Neustadt prior to the arrival of the British and should himself as senior ranking officer taken control of the situation. Effectively the the British opened the Kriegsmarine barracks as a DP camp for both German and Allied DP.