SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

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PF
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SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by PF » 02 Nov 2005 13:05

SS in Auschwitz Revolt of OCtober 1944.
How many were killed? 70 or 3? (2 SS and a Kapo)?

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Mr Holmes
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Post by Mr Holmes » 02 Nov 2005 13:26

PF,

If I may, I would also like to ask a question or two on this topic, but in more general terms. If you are not happy with the arrangement, I will PM a moderator and ask them to seperate the post.

What was the nature of the revolt? I have heard of this revolt, but know next to nothing about it. How was it begun? Were armed guards overpowered? Did prisoners escape from the camp? Were any of the guards, or Rudolf Hoess, tried on this particular incident?




-edit-


Thanks PF for your permission :-)

Nick
Last edited by Mr Holmes on 02 Nov 2005 13:41, edited 1 time in total.

PF
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Post by PF » 02 Nov 2005 13:36

I have no objection to you asking your inquiries.

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Helly Angel
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Post by Helly Angel » 03 Nov 2005 03:49

Sepp Dietrich wrote:
What was the nature of the revolt? I have heard of this revolt, but know next to nothing about it. How was it begun? Were armed guards overpowered? Did prisoners escape from the camp? ...

Nick


Survive. This was the last group of the Sonderkommandos in the camp. After the liquidation of the Hungaryan jews the next group to be eliminated are the sonderkommandos, they had some weapons and gunpowder to make grenades. They escaped and destroyed the Krema IV. I think we are talking about 600 inmates, but the majority were captured and killed with a shot in the neck.

Sorry for my terrible english, I have a lot of info about this but If you can speak spanish I can send PM with the info.

Helly

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M.Haslett
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Post by M.Haslett » 03 Nov 2005 06:57

I'm not sure how historically accurate it is, but there is a film pertaining to this topic, called The Grey Zone. I've seen it fairly recently and it is worth a viewing. It should, at the very least, give you a general idea of life at Auschwitz-Birkenau, the events leading up to the uprising, and the revolt itself.

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M.Haslett

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heimwehr danzig
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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by heimwehr danzig » 04 Feb 2011 22:49

Hi,

I have also watched the Grey Zone and read a few accounts of the revolt.
According to The Holocaust Research Project website the following 3 SS were killed

Rudolf Erler – SS Corporal born on 31 August 1904 – 5th SS Stormtroopers
Willi Preeze – SS Corporal born on 30 September 1921 – 2nd SS Stormtroopers
Jozef Purke – SS Corporal born on 28 February 1903 – 1st SS Stormtroopers

Also from the HRP website
At the sound of explosions and fighting the members of Kommando 57-B at Crematorium Number II started to revolt. The Reichsdeutsche Oberkapo and one SS-man were thrown into the burning furnace alive, another SS –man was beaten to death.
Which one was burned alive in the ovens and which beaten to death? What happened to the other fatality?

The link is below if you are interested:
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/revolt/sonderevolt.html

Kind regards,
"If I looked like Himmler, I wouldn't go on about race so much"
- Albert Forster, Gauleiter Danzig West Prussia

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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by JamesL » 05 Feb 2011 02:27

A Youtube link to Sonderkommandos interviews. Very grim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VstcaQ3Txw

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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by Peter » 06 Feb 2011 00:10

Nachname:Erler
Vorname:Rudolf
Dienstgrad:Unterscharführer
Geburtsdatum:31.08.1904
Geburtsort: Alt-Wernsdorf
Todes-/Vermisstendatum:07.10.1944
Todes-/Vermisstenort:Birkenau bei Auschwitz

He served in 5/SS-Totenkopf-Stuba KL Auschwitz I

Nachname:Purke
Vorname:Josef
Dienstgrad:Unterscharführer
Geburtsdatum:28.02.1903
Gebirtsort: Onstaletz
Todes-/Vermisstendatum:07.10.1944
Todes-/Vermisstenort:Auschwitz

He served in 1/SS-Totenkopf-Stuba KL Auschwitz II

Nachname:Freese
Vorname:Willi
Dienstgrad:Unterscharführer
Geburtsdatum:30.09.1921
Geburtsort:Lindenhof
Todes-/Vermisstendatum:07.10.1944
Todes-/Vermisstenort:Auschwitz

He served in 2/SS-Totenkopf-Stuba KL Auschwitz II

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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by wolfguy » 06 Feb 2011 09:22

To PF and Mr. Holmes,

The Sonderkommando Revolt was a response by the prisoners to the fact that they were told that they were about to be transferred to another sub camp. The previous group of sonderkommando men were told this and they were liquidated so they knew what their lot would be- they decided to resist being taken because they had nothing to lose.

212 prisoners were KIA during the revolt and the pursuit of those who were able to flee the camp into a nearby barn.

In addition, 200 more prisoners were shot as an immediate reprisal for the uprising.

So total prisoners killed was- 412

SS killed- the three mentioned above.
It is not clear if the SS man pushed into the crematoria was included in this number.

Source: Auschwitz 1940-1945 Volume IV

Wolfguy

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heimwehr danzig
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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by heimwehr danzig » 06 Feb 2011 14:23

Thinking of the supplementary question regarding post-war trials of SS personnel for the suppression of the revolt, I have not heard of any such cases.

Some men who participated in the suppression were tried, and Hoess himself was as well, but I think this was for other activities in the camp, not the crushing of the revolt per se.

I assume that in a revolt situation, where prisoners armed with explosives, guns and improvised weapons are destroying camp installations and killing SS guards, it would not be considered a crime to shoot those prisoners, even if putting them in the camp in the first place was a crime.
"If I looked like Himmler, I wouldn't go on about race so much"
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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by Peter » 06 Feb 2011 14:38

Whereas the reprisals which followed...............

little grey rabbit
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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by little grey rabbit » 07 Feb 2011 00:19

I think Filip Mueller managed to survive by climbing into one of the ovens of Krema V or was it Krema IV and crawling through the flues to stand in the chimeny stack while the fire and battle raged around him.

IIRC I think he was nonchalent enough to light a cigarette and look up at the blue sky through the chimney (I may be wrong about the cigarette).

Surely one of the great WW2 escape stories.

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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by little grey rabbit » 07 Feb 2011 02:18

Ahh the old grey matter is not so soft after all. Here it is, Auschiwtz Inferno page 156-157. Filip Mueller describes the revolt.

All this time I was still in the yard where prisoners were now milling about aimlessly and panic-stricken while from all sides they were met by a shower of bullets. One by one they fell to the ground fatally injured. Finally a large number raced towards the barbed wire to try and break through. I ran to crematorium 4 and a few metres away from the door threw myself to the ground. The shooting continued unabated. I had only one thought: to reach the crematorium without getting hurt. Taking my courage in both hands I stood up, bounded forward and flung myselt through the door into the crematorium room. I was by now completely out of breath. The crematorium was still burning fiercely. The wooden doors were ablaze, several of the wooden beams were charred and dangling from the ceiling, and there was a fire raging in the coke store. The windows on the opposite wall were riddled with bullet holes. Outside the firing continued. Bullets hit the ovens and ricocheted in all directions.
In a flash I remembered a place where I would be safe from bullets; inside the flue leading from the ovens to the chimney. I lifted one of the cast iron covers, climbed down and closed the cover behind me. Inside the flue there was no room to stand upright; I stretched out trying to catch my breath. From outside I could still hear the rattle of machine-guns. When after a while the shooting seemed to die down I crawled towards the chimney because I was able to stand up there. As I glanced up I glimpsed, framed by the four soot-blackened chimney walls. a small square of deep blue sky. Still trembling with agitation I lit a cigarette and blew the smoke up into the huge chimney. As it drifted up I suddenly remembered the very many human beings whose mortal remains had gone the same way.
The lull outside did not last long, but was abruptly broken by many different noises. I gathered that the SS were trying to put out the fire. I, too, felt a few splasches of water as it poured down from above so I crawled back into the flue and stayed there for some time. After a while I climbed out of my hiding place and cautiously made my way to one of the windows from where I could overlook the front yard. Down in the yard many of my fellow prisoners were lying very still in their blood-stained prison uniforms. Some SS men were running about with their carbines kicking the prostrate bodies to see whether they were still moving; if there was a slight movement or twitching they emptied several bulltets into the victim until he was still


Say what you will, but the old boy sure could write.

I know there was pond nearby for fire fighting but I am impressed by the water pressure they managed to achieve. Through some incompetence, doubtless, on my part, I was unable to spot either iron covers or flue entrances or even flues on my 3 visits there.

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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by uberjude » 07 Feb 2011 03:19

Why stop there? I'll bet you were also unable to spot chimneys.


And, say what you will about the old boy, it would quite remarkable if Muller--who nobody questions was a member of the Sonderkommando--were to go to all the trouble of fabricating a story and instead of putting himself in a fight, puts himself into hiding.

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Re: SS In Auschwitz Revolt of October 1944

Post by little grey rabbit » 07 Feb 2011 05:12

uberjude wrote:Why stop there? I'll bet you were also unable to spot chimneys.


I have been known to have such difficulties that the more intellectually gifted surmount with such ease.
http://collections.yadvashem.org/photos ... 64655.html

And, say what you will about the old boy, it would quite remarkable if Muller--who nobody questions was a member of the Sonderkommando--were to go to all the trouble of fabricating a story and instead of putting himself in a fight, puts himself into hiding.
[/quote]
Well, I would not be certain if he was a member of the Sonderkommando. I leave up to the judgement of the individual reader if Mr Mueller did indeed survive a revolt by hiding in a chimney or not.

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