Soviet reports about Auschwitz, 1944

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Kentaurus
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Post by Kentaurus » 21 Apr 2006 21:56

David Thompson wrote:A post from kentaurus, containing insulting comments about another poster, was deleted by the moderator pursuant to warnings previously posted at:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 412#752412
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 871#724871
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 737#682737

Please drop the personal remarks and discuss the subject.
Wow, you dug up all my previous warnings. Meticulous work :D
(In German we call that "Elefantengedächtnis" :lol: )

Well, let me rephrase:
I do know that some people have attempted to claim that Auschwitz chimney's were in a perpetual state of chimney fire in the upper reaches of the stack and this created the illusion of flames pouring out from the furnaces.
robota is grasping for straws here. Nobody ever claimed that the chimney fires were "perpetual". Witnesses reported to have seen flames coming from the chimneys and this can be explained by temporary chimney fires. robota is unable to disprove the "chimney fire" explanation and makes up claims about "perpetual" chimney fires so that he can argue against those made up claims. This just goes to show the dishonesty that he's willing to go to in order to pove his point.

nickterry
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Post by nickterry » 21 Apr 2006 23:48

Well, at least DT's moderation allowed me to check back and find you were being warned for rudeness to now-banned deniers.

:wink:

David Thompson
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Post by David Thompson » 22 Apr 2006 03:06

Let's get back on topic.

robota
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Post by robota » 22 Apr 2006 05:10

The correct and literal translation has been given. "Prinyat' uchastije" is to take part, to be involved, to participate.
Fascinating. My Russian colleague is begging for more.

Would you be able to put the scans of the originals up? I would not ask this if I did not know you had ready access to the technology and have frequently performed a similar service in the past.

Of course, if you do not wish to you are under no obligation having given the archival reference.

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Post by David Thompson » 22 Apr 2006 07:16

robota -- You wrote:
My Russian colleague is begging for more.
I've warned you before to avoid personal remarks in posts. I don't plan to warn you again.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 759#837759 (off-topic digressions, personal aspersions)
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 833#865833 (personal comments about posters)
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 631#868631 (off-topic, insulting aspersions; post deleted)
Personal remarks in posts are discouraged, and personal insults are forbidden here.
H&WC Section Rules
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962

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Sergey Romanov
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Post by Sergey Romanov » 22 Apr 2006 10:46

I believe "robota"'s reference is to its alleged Russian colleague who will be able to analyze the text.

As to "robota"'s request, I will give it a link when the Russian text will be online.

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Post by David Thompson » 22 Apr 2006 14:38

I believe "robota"'s reference is to its alleged Russian colleague who will be able to analyze the text.
If this is true, I am pleased to withdraw the warning.

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Sergey Romanov
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Post by Sergey Romanov » 22 Apr 2006 16:51

Well, "robota" wrote earlier:
I have a Russian colleague who would be able to read through it to check for any inadvertant mistranslations.

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Post by Potsdamerplatz » 22 Apr 2006 17:57

Hello.

I normally avoid this section of the forum as I am not knowledgeable enough on the Holocaust to post anything of interest. But I am interested in everyone's thoughts on why the Soviets didn't do more to put an end to the camp when they discovered its existence and purpose in August 1944. It has been extensively discussed in other threads why the Americans and British didn't bomb Auschwitz, but could the Soviets have attempted to bomb the death camp or take some other action to persuade the Western allies to act.

To the members who like to engage in petty-point scoring earlier in this thread, I am not interested in playing your games and will not respond to insults. I am just interested in intelligent discussion.

Thanks in advance for all information received.

Best regards,

David

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Post by nickterry » 22 Apr 2006 18:24

Potsdamerplatz wrote:Hello.

I normally avoid this section of the forum as I am not knowledgeable enough on the Holocaust to post anything of interest. But I am interested in everyone's thoughts on why the Soviets didn't do more to put an end to the camp when they discovered its existence and purpose in August 1944. It has been extensively discussed in other threads why the Americans and British didn't bomb Auschwitz, but could the Soviets have attempted to bomb the death camp or take some other action to persuade the Western allies to act.

To the members who like to engage in petty-point scoring earlier in this thread, I am not interested in playing your games and will not respond to insults. I am just interested in intelligent discussion.

Thanks in advance for all information received.

Best regards,

David

Well said David about the pettiness. Sadly, an occupational hazard of this section of the forum, given the contentiousness of the issues.

At least one article has been written addressing this question, I've not read it, but will endeavour to locate the reference. It pertained to the ability of the Red Air Force to bomb Auschwitz.

Other means, such as partisan action, were unavailable to the Soviets, even after they had overrun the Lublin district in July-August 1944 and arrived at Warsaw. The Polish AK was already engaged with a mini-civil war against Soviet forces and Polish AL in liberated territory.

The timing of the matter is utterly critical; the most pressing need for the Soviet military was if anything to airdrop supplies to the Warsaw Uprising which broke out at the beginning of August 1944. Postwar, the Soviet unit history of the relevant air army claimed to have made thousands of sorties to this effect, but their contribution was either exaggerated or the Polish veterans have ignored it out of bitterness of the seeming stasis of the Soviet front. A reference to this can be found in the relevant section of the endnotes of Erickson's Road to Berlin.

Quite simply, the Soviet drive begun June 22 had run out of most of its steam by August, with supply lines trailing behind, airfields all over the place, and so forth.

A good place to start looking would be whatever is written on the long-range air forces that the Soviets possessed. Most Soviet airpower was front aviation and generally consisted of tactical bombers; that would have been hard-pressed to have mounted a deep strike against a target in Upper Silesia.

There should be some consideration of whether Allied-Soviet agreements had been worked out by this date regarding bomb-lines. Later on, such agreements were pencilled in. It may therefore be that the Soviets considered it the duty of the Western Allies with their long-range heavy bomber force to attack targets in Upper Silesia.

Finally, the information developed by the NKGB might not necessarily have been shared with Soviet military intelligence. Perhaps it was, and a similar paper-trail exists in the Russian archives to that in NARA and the PRO. But perhaps it was sat on by the chekisty, and not passed along to the military; instead hitting a ceiling somewhere inside the NKVD-NKGB apparatus.

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Sergey Romanov
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Post by Sergey Romanov » 22 Apr 2006 18:56

The info about Auschwitz went as far as Beria, who also was in GKO.

There were 2 articles devoted to the topic of bombing in Kritika, I think.

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Sergey Romanov
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Post by Sergey Romanov » 22 Apr 2006 18:59


nickterry
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Post by nickterry » 22 Apr 2006 19:21

I really must index my pdf collection of the past few months in my bibliography....

dora 190w
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holocaust

Post by dora 190w » 27 Apr 2006 10:59

it seems to me that many people are unheathily dwelling on the minor details of crematoria construction as if to prove that a big lie is contained within this testimony;the fact is, testimony which is sixty odd years old is always going to be flawed,that the third reich perpetrated the largest extermination in all history is beyond doubt .The German people while being not always compliant were well aware of the atrocities being commited on their behalf,i know this for a fact as my grandfather ,(who was a german-speaking radio op in the first british tank into Holland post -6th june)had occasion to talk to many german soldiers,and his view was that the prosecution of the "Totaler Krieg" was only possible with complete support of the german people and armed forces because they knew what the allies would discover upon occupation of the Reich,in particular the general gouverment.besides which millions of people cannot disappear without thousands of people administrating the event,and all those people have families.it would be an impossible task to keep this a secret,and i find the people who are subversively trying to deny these events somewhat worrying what is their hidden agenda?

tonyh
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Post by tonyh » 27 Apr 2006 13:52

"that the third reich perpetrated the largest extermination in all history is beyond doubt"

I wonder if the native American Indian would agree.

Tony

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