Luftwaffe targetting refugees

[Davey Boy]

Just curious, were any Luftwaffe pilots prosecuted for firing at refugees during WWII. They did you know, they fired at Poles who were forced to migrate from western Poland, which was being Germanized, to the central part of the country. Often, a German plane would fly over a refugee line and let off a few rounds, maybe even drop a bomb or two. There were no military targets amongst these poor people, so why did the Luftwaffe do it? Just about the only vehicles there were bikes and horse drawn carriages. I even read a story once about some guy getting his head blown off by a bullet from a plane canon, and he kept running even after he lost his head. Geez, that must've been a sight.

[wildboar]

Hetman,
i doudt the entire thing as there is no widely published report of luftwafe strafing refugee's.
Infact it was soviet airforce which purposefully straffed unarmed german civilians who running to safety in west on verbal orders of Mr Beria
so why double standards while soviet pilots whon did similar action were let free so why should german pilots be prosecuted?

[Davey Boy]

Hetman,
i doudt the entire thing as there is no widely published report of luftwafe strafing refugee's.
Infact it was soviet airforce which purposefully straffed unarmed german civilians who running to safety in west on verbal orders of Mr Beria
so why double standards while soviet pilots whon did similar action were let free so why should german pilots be prosecuted?

Well, I am almost speechless Wildboar, almost but not quite. First of all, both the Germans and the Soviets should be prosecuted. And if one side wasn't, then that doesn't mean the other side shouldn't be. I am sure that if the Nazis won the war, all their war crims would be heroes.

Also, I don't know what you've been reading over there in India, but I've seen a mass of first hand reports of Luftwaffe planes straffing civillians just for the heck of it. And for your benefit, here's one of them:

I remember one incident very clearly and still dream about it to this day. A man was crossing one of the wide streets in Warsaw when a German fighter plane came in low, just above roof level, machine guns firing at him, cutting off his head completely and he continued running towards the chemist's shop and I wondered how a man could run without a head - I now know the reason.

http://timewitnesses.org/english/~janm.html

[wildboar]

Hetman wrote,

Well, I am almost speechless Wildboar, almost but not quite. First of all, both the Germans and the Soviets should be prosecuted. And if one side wasn't, then that doesn't mean the other side shouldn't be. I am sure that if the Nazis won the war, all their war crims would be heroes.

While i agree with you that war criminal irrespective of any side should be punished.

But i am opposed to selective punishment that only german war criminals are to be punished while soviet warciminals to be let scot free and granted immunity forever

Hetman thanks for the link.

[Roberto]

But i am opposed to selective punishment that only german war criminals are to be punished while soviet warciminals to be let scot free and granted immunity forever

What alternatives do you propose ?

If one group of killers can't be captured and tried for whatever reason, would you therefrom conclude that another group of killers that can be captured and tried should be left alone ?

[Scott Smith]

Actually, this is one atrocity story that is absolutely true!

Nazi Dictator Adolf Hitler ordered all Bf 109 pilots to strafe columns of retreating Polish cavalry in pursuit by the Panzers of the Master Race, and also all civilian refugees, lest the nucleus of the bacilli be left intact and the struggle would be fought anew by another generation of pure German blood.

But Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, on his own initiative, expressly ordered that ONLY Poles with round heads and brown eyes be bombed and strafed by the Stukas and fighters. Furthermore, the calculating Nazi with oriental features smugging behind his thick Aryan spectacles had ordered that only "volunteer" pilots be chosen for this orgy of destruction. Thus, if any survived after the war, they too would be liquidated. An exterminator's job is an unpleasant but a necessary one.

When Field Marshal Göring heard of these plans, he protested immediately to Hitler, as the SS was again interfering with HIS Luftwaffe. First the Gestapo and now this! "I will decide which of my pilots will be shot, and when!"

Hitler immediately rescinded the "mopping and strafing" order altogether, lest the British Secret Service learn of it and inform the German Underground, but it was already too late. Many columns were strafed anyway and a disproportionate number of square-headed, blond and blue-eyed casualties were encountered by the Führer himself when he visited the front for the first and last time of the war. The Nazi Warlord preferred to chew his salad alone, or hatch his bloody schemes in the company of the dark. Himmler's efforts to spare the Führer's sensibilities had not gone unnoticed.

"Who Remembers the Armenians?!," Admiral Canaris recalls Hitler thundering, as Göring tap-danced on the table with glee.

Really, I should get paid for writing this crap...

[Roberto]

Actually, this is one atrocity story that is absolutely true!

Nazi Dictator Adolf Hitler ordered all Bf 109 pilots to strafe columns of retreating Polish cavalry in pursuit by the Panzers of the Master Race, and also all civilian refugees, lest the nucleus of the bacilli be left intact and the struggle would be fought anew by another generation of pure German blood.

But Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, on his own initiative, expressly ordered that ONLY Poles with round heads and brown eyes be bombed and strafed by the Stukas and fighters. Furthermore, the calculating Nazi with oriental features smugging behind his thick Aryan spectacles had ordered that only "volunteer" pilots be chosen for this orgy of destruction. Thus, if any survived after the war, they too would be liquidated. An exterminator's job is an unpleasant but a necessary one.

When Field Marshal Göring heard of these plans, he protested immediately to Hitler, as the SS was again interfering with HIS Luftwaffe. First the Gestapo and now this! "I will decide which of my pilots will be shot, and when!"

Hitler immediately rescinded the "mopping and strafing" order altogether, lest the British Secret Service learn of it and inform the German Underground, but it was already too late. Many columns were strafed anyway and a disproportionate number of square-headed, blond and blue-eyed casualties were encountered by the Führer himself when he visited the front for the first and last time of the war. The Nazi Warlord preferred to chew his salad alone, or hatch his bloody schemes in the company of the dark. Himmler's efforts to spare the Führer's sensibilities had not gone unnoticed.

"Who Remembers the Armenians?!," Admiral Canaris recalls Hitler thundering, as Göring tap-danced on the table with glee.

Really, I should get paid for writing this crap...

Writing crap is Smith's specialty, but this is no crap:

Vernichtung Polens im Vordergrund. Ziel ist die Beseitigung der lebendigen Kräfte, nicht die Erreichung einer bestimmten Linie. Auch wenn im Westen Krieg ausbricht, bleibt Vernichtung Polens im Vordergrund. Mit Rücksicht auf Jahreszeit schnelle Entscheidung.
Ich werde propagandistischen Anlass zur Auslösung des Krieges geben, gleichgültig, ob glaubhaft. Der Sieger wird später nicht danach gefragt, ob er die Wahrheit gesagt hat oder nicht. Bei Beginn und Führung des Krieges kommt es nicht auf das Recht an, sondern auf den Sieg.
Herz verschliessen gegen Mitleid. Brutales Vorgehen. 80 Millionen Menschen müssen ihr Recht bekommen. Ihre Existenz muss gesichert werden. Grösste Härte. Schnelligkeit der Entscheidung notwendig. Festen Glauben an den deutschen Soldaten. Krisen nur auf Versagen der Nerven der Führer zurückzuführen.
Erste Forderung: Vordringen bis zur Weichsel und bis zum Narew. Unsere technische Überlegenheit wird die Nerven der Polen zerbrechen. Jede sich neu bildende lebendige polnische Kraft ist sofort zu vernichten. Fortgesetzte Zermürbung. Neue deutsche Grenzführung nach gesunden Gesichtspunkten, evtl. Protektorat als Vorgelände. Militärische Operationen nehmen auf diese Überlegungen keine Rücksicht. Restlose Zertrümmerung Polens ist das militärische Ziel. Schnelligkeit ist die Hauptsache. Verfolgung bis zur völligen Vernichtung.
berzeugung, dass die deutsche Wehrmacht den Anforderungen gewachsen ist. Auslösung wird nocht befohlen ...

Source of quote: Ernst Klee / Willi Dressen, "Gott mit uns”: Der deutsche Vernichtungskrieg im Osten there is yet another summary of Hitler's statements at the afternoon meeting on the Obersalzberg on 22.8.1939. The document referred to is Nuernberg Document 1014-PS, IMT, Volume XXVI.

My translation:

The annihilation of Poland is the priority. The goal is the removal of living forces, not the reaching of a certain line. Even if war should break out in the West, the annihilation of Poland remains the priority. Considering the time of the year, a quick decision is required.
I shall provide for a propagandistic reason to unleash the war, regardless of whether it is credible or not. The victor is not asked at a later stage whether he told the truth or not. In beginning and conducting a war, what matters is not right but victory.
Close heart to pity. Brutal proceeding. 80 million people must get their right. Their existence must be assured. Greatest harshness. Quick decision is necessary. Firm faith in the German soldier. Crises must only be attributed to commanders having lost their nerves.
First requirement: Advance to the Vistula and the Narev. Our technical superiority will break the nerves of the Poles. Every new Polish force forming must be immediately annihilated. Continuous attrition. New German frontier according to healthy criteria, eventually a protectorate as a buffer area. Military operations must not take these thoughts into consideration. The utter shattering of Poland is the military goal. Pursuit until complete annihilation.
Conviction that the German Wehrmacht is up to the task. Unleashing will yet be ordered ...

[Roberto]

Hetman,
i doudt the entire thing as there is no widely published report of luftwafe strafing refugee's.

None that wildboar knows of or cares to know of, maybe.

A few quotes should start bridging this gap of knowledge on the part of wildboar and whoever else thinks the Luftwaffe was any more alien to strafing civilians than its Soviet, British or American counterparts.

1937 Apr 26, German planes from the Condor Legion--sent to Spain by Adolf Hitler to help fascist General Francisco Franco overthrow the communist Popular Front regime-- attacked the Basque town of Guernica in Spain. Bombs fell for three hours and escaping villagers were shot down by machine-gun fire from the air. The attack killed as many as 1,600-1,650 Basque civilians and injured 900. Although the alleged target was a bridge of military significance some distance from the town, dazed survivors described a merciless four-hour bombing and strafing attack by German pilots directed toward the village and its inhabitants. The Guernica atrocity became synonymous with the horror of modern warfare and inspired one of the 20th century's greatest works of art, Guernica, by Spanish artist Pablo Picasso.

http://timelines.ws/20thcent/1936_1937.HTML

The German Luftwaffe ruled the sky, bombing and strafing towns, railway stations, military and nonmilitary targets, and the civilian population, which took to the road by the hundreds of thousands trying to escape the Nazis. That was well nigh impossible because the German armies were invading Poland simultaneously from the north, west and south.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/info-poland/AT1.html

In its first raids on Polish towns, the Luftwaffe had bombed residential areas without any delusion that they were military objectives. Any idea that perhaps these were mistakes was dispelled by the dropping of fragmentation and incendiary bombs on small suburban settlements and on hospitals and hospital trains clearly marked with red crosses on their roofs. There was also the strafing of defenseless civilians escaping along the roads and fields from the burning villages and towns before the rapid advance of the Germans.

http://www.dac.neu.edu/holocaust/Hitler ... H%20NATION

But meanwhile, their feeble powers of locomotion posed no challenge for the German airplanes. Stuka dive-bomber and Messerschmitt fighter pilots enjoyed a field day in that late spring of 1940 as they pounced out of the sun upon the slow-moving, defenseless columns. Roaring at treetop level with machine guns clattering, the planes rained hellfire on men, women, and children. Screams pierced the air as all scrambled for cover in ditches or under trees and vehicles. Spread-eagled bodies lined the roads by the hundreds after each strafing.

http://www.angelfire.com/tx/filial/mendes.html

[...]But, as Bychevsky noted, the girls did not return so quickly. Nor did all return. [...] Some were buried (and some were not) in the open fields and beside the roads, where they were caught by flights of low-flying JU-88s and Heinkel attack bombers. The planes flew over, day after day, bombing and strafing. How many thousands were killed ? No one knows. There was no accurate count of those engaged on the job and no way of identifying who returned and who did not.[...]

Harrison E. Salisbury, The 900 Days, 1970 Avon Books, New York, pages 205/206

Infact it was soviet airforce which purposefully straffed unarmed german civilians who running to safety in west on verbal orders of Mr Beria

Evidence ?

I mean not to the strafing, which I have no doubt about, but to Beria's orders.

[Scott Smith]

Writing crap is Smith's specialty, but this is no crap:

The annihilation of Poland is the priority. The goal is the removal of living forces, not the reaching of a certain line. Even if war should break out in the West, the annihilation of Poland remains the priority. Considering the time of the year, a quick decision is required.

Of course annihilation is the priority in wartime--to reach a military decision.

[Roberto]

Writing crap is Smith's specialty, but this is no crap:

The annihilation of Poland is the priority. The goal is the removal of living forces, not the reaching of a certain line. Even if war should break out in the West, the annihilation of Poland remains the priority. Considering the time of the year, a quick decision is required.

Of course annihilation is the priority in wartime--to reach a military decision.

I must have a language problem, for what I read in the above is "the annihilation of Poland", i.e. the destruction of Poland as a nation, and not "the annihilation of Polish military forces".

But the passage I found most instructive was the one that translates:

Close heart to pity. Brutal proceeding. 80 million people must get their right. Their existence must be assured. Greatest harshness.

Of course, as the Führer's faithful follower will hasten to tell us, Adolf was talking to a bunch of candy-ass generals who needed to be whipped by such rhetoric into understanding the harsh realities of war.

[Scott Smith]

Of course, as the Führer's faithful follower will hasten to tell us, Adolf was talking to a bunch of candy-ass generals who needed to be whipped by such rhetoric into understanding the harsh realities of war.

Exactly. A bunch of (mostly) Junker reactionaries who desperately wanted to settle scores with Poland, and this was a language they understood. They were a lot less brave about fighting Britain and France. Chicken No. 1 was von Brauchitsch and Chicken No. 2 was Halder.

[Roberto]

Of course, as the Führer's faithful follower will hasten to tell us, Adolf was talking to a bunch of candy-ass generals who needed to be whipped by such rhetoric into understanding the harsh realities of war.

Exactly. A bunch of (mostly) Junker reactionaries who desperately wanted to settle scores with Poland, and this was a language they understood.

I see. The "Graf Bobbi" type who, according to a joke that Mr. Kaschner once told us, would ask a guest what he preferred to do after dinner, beat up the servants or shoot some Poles.

And yet the Führer seems to have felt the necessity to make clear to them that they were to "close hearts to pity" ...

[Scott Smith]

And yet the Führer seems to have felt the necessity to make clear to them that they were to "close hearts to pity" ...

So that they would get the job they relished done with dispatch and fight the dangerous enemy before he could act.

[Roberto]

And yet the Führer seems to have felt the necessity to make clear to them that they were to "close hearts to pity" ...

So that they would get the job they relished done with dispatch and fight the dangerous enemy before he could act.

That would hardly require exhorting “Junker reactionaries who desperately wanted to settle scores with Poland” to

Close heart to pity. Brutal proceeding. 80 million people must get their right. Their existence must be assured. Greatest harshness.

[Scott Smith]

And yet the Führer seems to have felt the necessity to make clear to them that they were to "close hearts to pity" ...

So that they would get the job they relished done with dispatch and fight the dangerous enemy before he could act.

That would hardly require exhorting “Junker reactionaries who desperately wanted to settle scores with Poland” to

Close heart to pity. Brutal proceeding. 80 million people must get their right. Their existence must be assured. Greatest harshness.

Why not? It was a roll of the dice, a new world war. It would not be easy. Temerity does not win battles.