Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

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aurelien wolff
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Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by aurelien wolff » 06 Aug 2019 01:54


aurelien wolff
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by aurelien wolff » 06 Aug 2019 02:01

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Thoddy
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by Thoddy » 06 Aug 2019 11:57

It worth, explicitely mentioning the 32 cm belt armor, instead of the common believe of a 35 cm belt armor.
"Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!"

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Gorque
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by Gorque » 06 Aug 2019 23:44

The two ships, from what I recall, were wet even in slightly inclement weather. Would the exchanging of the 3 28 cm guns for the 2 38 cm guns hsve worsened this condition?

Thoddy
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by Thoddy » 07 Aug 2019 11:54

despite beeing wet they were also very fast even in the worst whether.

Construction wise both ships were overweighted even without the 38 cm by about 2000 t mostly caused by additional demands compared to the original draft.

Only solution would be increasing displacement accordingly.
"Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!"

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Don71
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by Don71 » 12 Aug 2019 16:14

After the original plans, to compensate the more weight of the 38cm turret and to create more buoyancy, the bow section in front of turret Anton should be lenghten around ten meters.
After that the hull would be significant less wet because the own created wave, would be significant forward and the hull would less pitching in water at high speed.

aurelien wolff
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by aurelien wolff » 13 Aug 2019 04:17

Not a scharnhorst with 38cm original plan,I've read a "9-28cm SK C/28"
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Nautilus
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by Nautilus » 05 Sep 2019 17:12

Don71 wrote:
12 Aug 2019 16:14
After the original plans, to compensate the more weight of the 38cm turret and to create more buoyancy, the bow section in front of turret Anton should be lenghten around ten meters.
After that the hull would be significant less wet because the own created wave, would be significant forward and the hull would less pitching in water at high speed.
Turret weight for a 38cm SK C/34 was 1052 tonnes, which is 302 tonnes heavier than a 28cm SK C/34.

This means the ship became top-heavy by 906 tonnes and lower hull even heavier, as stronger machinery had to be fitted for 38cm shell handling.

Buoyancy was much needed at the bow, as the ships had been designed for lighter weight and they were both wet forward (sometimes the Anton turret could barely be used in heavy seas) and very pitchy. There is some poor quality footage with Scharnhorst at speed - it pitched harshly, like a much smaller cruiser or destroyer.

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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 38cm

Post by Thoddy » 10 Sep 2019 07:46

Commisioning of Scharnhorst and Gneisenau took place with about 2000 t overweigth.
When fueloil has been moved out by this weight, the seakeeping capabilities became better.
During service additional weights has been assigned so that the main belt became almost fully submerged - only 60 cm remain above waterline for Scharnhorst.

problems were: low freeboard, low difference of freeboard midship and foreship, fairly low protrude of the upper parts of the forward shipsides.

Scharnhorst was a very fast ship even in heaviest seastate despite beeing wet for the reasons mentioned above. It was able to open the distance to DOY during the northcape action within about one hour by about 8000 yards.
The fine bow with its low displacement is more likely boring through waves instead of pitching up and down.
"Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!"

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