Identify Ship with Hitler

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
Christie
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Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby Christie » 17 Mar 2008 18:10

Can anyone identify the Ship or the men with Hitler in this photo?

My uncle had a small version of this photo in his personal effects when he passed away. I was shocked to see him standing in the photo!!! I am researching his Military career because his records show he was in the British Army and the US army. I did not know of the Kriegsmarine until I found this photo.

Please help me to ID this photo. A date, ship, captain's name or any information would be greatly appreciated!!

I would love to see more photos added to the Galleries!! I have checked out every book at my local library and the internet does not have many photos of the crews.

Christie
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USAF1986
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby USAF1986 » 17 Mar 2008 19:16

Can you please provide a close up of one the sailor's hat bands? If pre-war, as I suspect, the name of the ship should be written on it. Just a stab, but it looks the bow of one of the three "pocket battleships."

Best regards,
Shawn

Christie
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby Christie » 18 Mar 2008 20:36

I sure wish I could !!! This is the only photo I have of him. That is why I am researching and hoping someone may know some details of the photo. It is hard to believe that a photo with Hitler does not have a historical biography.

Thank you for the reply.

Christie

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Alaric
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby Alaric » 26 Mar 2008 21:24

Shawn, that would be my guess also, judging from the size of the gun barrel above Hitler and the officer's heads. Either Bismark, Tirpitz or Graf Spee.

tommy303
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby tommy303 » 27 Mar 2008 20:19

While I can't hazard a guess as to the ship, though it might be one of the old pre-dreadnoughts, I would like to point out that none of the naval uniforms have the Hoheitsadler on the right chest and the caps do not appear to have it either. If I recall this places the date of the photo as 1935 or earlier, prior to the formal founding of the Kriegsmarine.

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kroger
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby kroger » 28 Mar 2008 03:32

In my opinion, by the size of the guns, the officers staff (looks like Admiral Lütjens and Captain Lindemann), I would say this is the launch of the Battleship Bismarck in 1940. The quality of the pic is not the best, can´t have certain.

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kroger
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby kroger » 28 Mar 2008 03:48

kroger wrote:In my opinion, by the size of the guns, the officers staff (looks like Admiral Lütjens and Captain Lindemann), I would say this is the launch of the Battleship Bismarck in 1940. The quality of the pic is not the best, can´t have certain.


I'm mistaken, behind him is Grand Admiral Raeder.

Tony D.
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby Tony D. » 28 Mar 2008 21:28

I don't believe that it is Bismarck, as the sailors are in white, summer uniforms. When Hitler visited Bismarck, the sailors were in their dark, winter uniforms.

See this picture for the Bismarck visit:

Image

Also note that in this picture, Hitler is wearing a trench coat while in the picture above he is coatless.

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friend_of_Obersalzberg
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby friend_of_Obersalzberg » 28 Mar 2008 23:09

I have the same picture found in one of my books about the Obersalzberg (really!). Unfortunately, the book has no picture proof, so I can´t tell you anything about the photographer or similar. But: The book calls the man right to Hitler as "Werner von Fritsch". Von Fritsch was till 1938 Generaloberst and "Oberbefehlshaber des Heeres". In 1938 he was dismissed. So, if the photo caption is true, the photo must be before 1938 (Hitlers brown uniform is another clue). So it CANNOT be Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst (setting into service January 1939). Gneisenau is improbable /sis May 1938).
Heavy Cruiser Admiral Hipper sis April 1939, Prinz Eugen August sis 1940, Blücher sis September 1939.
So, what ships are left?
- Graf Spee, Scheer, Deutschland (pocket battleships)
- Light Cruiser Köln, Karlsruhe, Nürnberg, Königsberg etc..
- Linienschiff Schleswig-Holstein

It´s presumably, the picture is taken at Kiel during the "Kieler Woche".

Hope this hlps

Ralf

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Alaric
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby Alaric » 31 Mar 2008 07:00

friend_of_Obersalzberg wrote:I have the same picture found in one of my books about the Obersalzberg (really!). Unfortunately, the book has no picture proof, so I can´t tell you anything about the photographer or similar. But: The book calls the man right to Hitler as "Werner von Fritsch". Von Fritsch was till 1938 Generaloberst and "Oberbefehlshaber des Heeres". In 1938 he was dismissed. So, if the photo caption is true, the photo must be before 1938 (Hitlers brown uniform is another clue). So it CANNOT be Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst (setting into service January 1939). Gneisenau is improbable /sis May 1938).
Heavy Cruiser Admiral Hipper sis April 1939, Prinz Eugen August sis 1940, Blücher sis September 1939.
So, what ships are left?
- Graf Spee, Scheer, Deutschland (pocket battleships)
- Light Cruiser Köln, Karlsruhe, Nürnberg, Königsberg etc..
- Linienschiff Schleswig-Holstein

It´s presumably, the picture is taken at Kiel during the "Kieler Woche".

Hope this hlps

Ralf


Well Ralf, you and others have successfully blown my guess out of the water! I was unaware of the date of Hitlers changeover from the brown "party" uniform to the field gray as well. Thanks to all for educating me on that subject.

Christie
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby Christie » 08 Apr 2008 19:54

I want to thank everyone for the replies!!! I am so lost in my research and you all have been so helpful.
Please continue if find anymore info!!

Deepest gratitude,
Christie

Christie
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby Christie » 09 Apr 2008 17:45

Ralf,

Could you give me the name of the book you found the photo in?
Thank you!!


Tommy 303,
Good eye on the uniform not having the patch.
Thank you !!

I have been told the ship could be the Deutschland - Lutzow.

I am so grateful for the help,
Christie

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friend_of_Obersalzberg
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby friend_of_Obersalzberg » 09 Apr 2008 21:45

Christie:

Funny, today I took a look in some old books I have....and indeed, I found the picture for the second time. To your question: The book, I found "your" photo for the first time: "Obersalzberg vor und nach der Zerstörung Biographie des 3. Reiches" is a small booklet with 106 pages. The publisher -and authors- were Erwin and Silvia Fabritius from Berchtesgaden. It´s a very old book...I think, I have it since 18 years.
The second found is more interesting: It´s a VERY OLD book, I don´t wanna write the name here...the First publishing year is 1934 and this photo is in it! In colour!
Based on the photo and plans or photos of the able ships: We can bolt out the "Admiral Scheer"...the Ankerspill (I know no word in English for that) is to far away from the gun-tube.
Based on the position of the Ankerspill I would tend to Light Cruiser Köln ....but "Deutschland" was my first think, too..

Greetings

Ralf

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crolick
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby crolick » 10 Apr 2008 23:00

It is SCHLESWIG-HOLESTEIN or SCHLESIEN.

First of all - please not that the capstan (which in German stands for Ankerspill ;) ) has 8 bars. See plans of the S-H on the Dreadnought Project. You will notice that capstan has 8 bars as well.

Second of all - we can see that the barrell is not smooth as it was on Panzerschiffe or K cruisers. So again it can be only Linienschiffe!


Hope it helps!

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friend_of_Obersalzberg
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Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Postby friend_of_Obersalzberg » 11 Apr 2008 09:51

Crolick: Good points. But the CAPSTANS ( :lol: ) have 8 barrels on almost every bigger ship of the Kriegsmarine …The Destroyer Z 20, for example, and the Light Cruisers has 8 Barrels, too. But I lean to your Linienschiffe idea, because a Light Cruiser looks to small at that place, that the crew could stand in double-bank and Hitler and von Fritsch(?) can walk side by side….
The extend of the barrel…well, I cannot recognize or calculate the caliber in that photo ….maybe my eyes are not good enough…. :wink:

Greetings

Ralf

PS: Schleswig-HOLSTEIN

@ Christie:

Maybe it would be easier, if we know the name of your uncle.


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