Identify Ship with Hitler

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
Christie
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Mar 2008 17:37

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by Christie » 11 Apr 2008 16:48

I am not sure which name he used that early in his life. After his death I went through his papers and found another identity. I assume he used Jose Angel Leon Pasqual at that time.

Is it possible these sailors were very young boys? They look so small compared to Hitler and the Officers. Also by my uncle's birthdate...he must have been between 13-16.

I appreciate all the info so much!! I hope to find copies of the books so I can see the color picture myself. Maybe one day I will know for certain which ship it is.

Please post any info you can share!!
Christie

User avatar
crolick
Member
Posts: 261
Joined: 25 Oct 2005 20:18
Location: Warszawa, Polska

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by crolick » 12 Apr 2008 14:29

friend_of_Obersalzberg wrote:The extend of the barrel…well, I cannot recognize or calculate the caliber in that photo ….maybe my eyes are not good enough…. :wink:
No it is not the extend of the barrel but this 'step' which can be seen on the barrel. K cruiser didn't have such step (barrels were smooth - at least to my knowledge :wink: ).

friend_of_Obersalzberg wrote:PS: Schleswig-HOLSTEIN
Yes - of course, just a typo :wink:


Christie wrote:Is it possible these sailors were very young boys? They look so small compared to Hitler and the Officers. Also by my uncle's birthdate...he must have been between 13-16
Yes, they might. Both SCHLESIEN and SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN were school ships for cadets, so it is highly possible that this is the case.

User avatar
friend_of_Obersalzberg
Member
Posts: 226
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 21:09
Location: South Bavaria

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by friend_of_Obersalzberg » 13 Apr 2008 12:09

Crolick:

crolick wrote:No it is not the extend of the barrel but this 'step' which can be seen on the barrel. K cruiser didn't have such step (barrels were smooth - at least to my knowledge ).



I don´t wanna be the dog in the manger...but, for example, the "Koeln" guns has the step, too:

koeln.jpg




But your other comments are convincing. The age of Christies uncle....yes, you are very right,it must be a Schulschiff. So I will concentrate my search to the "Schleswig" and the "Schlesien"....

Greetings

Ralf

User avatar
friend_of_Obersalzberg
Member
Posts: 226
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 21:09
Location: South Bavaria

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by friend_of_Obersalzberg » 13 Apr 2008 12:16

Christie:

take a look at that website. Many photos from the "Schlesien" an the Light Cruisers. Maybe you will find your uncle again....:

http://www.militaria-house.com/liniensc ... esien.html

PS: The photo from the "Köln" is from that website

Greetings

Ralf

Tony D.
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 13:34
Location: SE PA

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by Tony D. » 14 Apr 2008 03:01

crolick wrote:Second of all - we can see that the barrell is not smooth as it was on Panzerschiffe or K cruisers. So again it can be only Linienschiffe!



I'm afraid that's incorrect. All of the Panzerschiffes and "K" cruisers had built up barrels with a "step" in them.

Image

Image

Personally, my guess is that the photo is of one of the Panzerschiffes, as the bow section shown appears to be wider than the fairly narrow bows of the old German pre-dread classes. In addition, I would say that the barrel is much larger than the 15 cm barrels on the "K" class.

User avatar
crolick
Member
Posts: 261
Joined: 25 Oct 2005 20:18
Location: Warszawa, Polska

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by crolick » 14 Apr 2008 09:44

friend_of_Obersalzberg wrote:I don´t wanna be the dog in the manger...but, for example, the "Koeln" guns has the step, too:
Yes indeed. This is why I wrote 'at least to my knowledge' :P
Thank you!

Tony D. wrote:Personally, my guess is that the photo is of one of the Panzerschiffes, as the bow section shown appears to be wider than the fairly narrow bows of the old German pre-dread classes. In addition, I would say that the barrel is much larger than the 15 cm barrels on the "K" class.
I can not agree with that. Please notice that on 'our' photo one can see that the barrel easily reaches the cabestan (and in fact can be seen over the cabestan) while on this photo:
Image
http://www.deutschland-class.dk/admiral ... atrol.html
it is clearly seen that barrels of GRAF SPEE does not reach the cabestan and ends well before it!

Christie
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Mar 2008 17:37

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by Christie » 21 Apr 2008 15:23

The pictures and info is amazing.

Ralf, thank you for the link to the site. I wish I could speak German...but the pictures I can enjoy. I wish there were more close up shots of the faces. Perhaps there are individual pics of them in their uniforms somewhere.

I feel that with all of your help I will know which ship this is eventually. Thanks again for sharing your wealths of knowledge.

Christie

In Treue fest
Member
Posts: 72
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 21:36
Location: Germany

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by In Treue fest » 21 Apr 2008 16:30

friend_of_Obersalzberg wrote:I have the same picture found in one of my books about the Obersalzberg (really!). Unfortunately, the book has no picture proof, so I can´t tell you anything about the photographer or similar. But: The book calls the man right to Hitler as "Werner von Fritsch". Von Fritsch was till 1938 Generaloberst and "Oberbefehlshaber des Heeres".


That's certainly not Generaloberst von Fritsch. The man accompanying Hitler doesn't wear a uniform of a General of the Army, but a navy uniform. Must be the commander of the ship, i.e. a Kapitän zur See (Captain).

The caliber of the guns is certainly larger than 15 cm. So, no K-class cruiser.

friend_of_Obersalzberg wrote:The second found is more interesting: It´s a VERY OLD book, I don´t wanna write the name here...the First publishing year is 1934 and this photo is in it! In colour!


Why don't you?

Christie wrote:Also by my uncle's birthdate...he must have been between 13-16.


I don't think that's possible. As far as I know, no cadets were accepted if they hadn't completed school. I.e. they must have been at least 16 years old.

User avatar
friend_of_Obersalzberg
Member
Posts: 226
Joined: 05 Sep 2007 21:09
Location: South Bavaria

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by friend_of_Obersalzberg » 24 Apr 2008 22:52

In Treue fest wrote:That's certainly not Generaloberst von Fritsch. The man accompanying Hitler doesn't wear a uniform of a General of the Army, but a navy uniform. Must be the commander of the ship, i.e. a Kapitän zur See (Captain).


Right you are....

crolick wrote:http://www.deutschland-class.dk/admiral ... atrol.html
it is clearly seen that barrels of GRAF SPEE does not reach the cabestan and ends well before it!


Right you are, Crolick...and I saw the same at Admiral Scheer, so I did the SCHEER bar out in a formerly post. BUT...take a look at the DEUTSCHLAND:

galldeutschlandfittingout01.jpg


Here the barrels reach the Cabestan....

@ Christie:

Here my two photos:

ship 003.jpg


ship 004.jpg


Greetings

Ralf

Christie
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Mar 2008 17:37

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by Christie » 25 Apr 2008 20:24

Ralf,

Thank you for posting the pic in color !! It is so awesome to see my uncle in color...it seems more real. I have been researching this for so long that it feels dreamlike. I sure hope we can figure out the ships name. It is hard to imagine him being so young and going through training. He passed away in 1994 and I still miss him very much. Thanks again for all the knowledge you have shared with me!!!

Christie

Potsdamerplatz
Member
Posts: 2688
Joined: 04 Nov 2005 05:06
Location: Scotland

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by Potsdamerplatz » 25 Apr 2008 21:20

Hello Christie - Which sailor is your uncle and did he ever talk about his experience of meeting Hitler in person?

Kind regards.
The truth is that you're a quiet, sensitive type, but if I'm prepared to take a chance I might just get to know the inner you: witty, adventurous, passionate, loving, loyal, a little bit crazy, a little bit bad, but, hey, don't us girls just love that?

Christie
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 Mar 2008 17:37

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by Christie » 28 Apr 2008 19:30

Greetings Potsdamerplatz,

My uncle is on the front row the 9th from the left. Appears he is looking at the camera or Hitler. He never told me he was in the Kriegsmarine. He had a small version of this photo in his personal effects I acquired when he died. His photo had Hitler and the Captains (?) cut off. I did not even know which nationality the sailor uniform was until I began researching via the web. I was amazed to see the full size photo with Hitler!! I was only aware he was in the KOSB British Army and the US Army.
I have been assisted by some wonderful folks I have corresponded with via the internet and learned alot about his military career. I hope to learn the name of the ship this photo was taken on so I can research more about his time in the Kriegsmarine. I wish I could know how he went from the German navy to the British army and then to the US Army.
I see you are from Scotland and his mother was from Aberdeen. I have his kilt pins of the McCleod clan with the Bull and "Hold Fast" on them.
Nice to hear from you and please share any info you may have.
Christie

varjag
Financial supporter
Posts: 4431
Joined: 01 May 2002 01:44
Location: Australia

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by varjag » 02 May 2008 11:57

Hitler and von Fritsch(?)

Nope - both men flanking Hitler are navy officers - to his left Raeder I would say.....agree with other comments, it is a 'Linienschiff', i.e. a pre-dreadnought battleship, Varjag

ohrdruf
Member
Posts: 862
Joined: 15 May 2004 22:02
Location: south america

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by ohrdruf » 03 May 2008 15:41

"Der Kanzler besucht die Flotte": this puts the date of the photograph between Hitler's acquisition of power on 30January 1933 and 2 August 1934 on the death of Hindeburg when Hitler declared himself to be Führer. Agree that this limits the possibilities to the 1906-built Schlesien and Schleswig Holstein, and Panzerschiff Deutschland.

User avatar
Heimatschuss
Member
Posts: 2597
Joined: 22 May 2006 22:50
Location: Deutschland

Re: Identify Ship with Hitler

Post by Heimatschuss » 04 May 2008 12:07

Hello,

my bet is that it's the cruiser 'Leipzig'. Hitler visited the 'Leizig' on May 23rd, 1933 accompanied by General von Blomberg, Admiral Raeder, Göring, and von Papen ( http://wapedia.mobi/en/Early_Nazi_Timeline ).

A good photo of the Leipzig http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/germany/pages/cruisers/leipzig.htm shows the capstans underneath the gun barrels so the geometry of the Hitler photo would fit. On the other hand on the Linienschiffe 'Schleswig-Holstein', 'Schlesien' and 'Hessen' the capstans seem to have been further forward, on level with the gun muzzles. On the 'Deutschland' they were even further ahead.

The tall guy who's head can be seen to the left of Hitler may be von Blomberg. Below is a pic from http://www.ullsteinbild.de of a visit Hitler paid the Navy in Kiel in May 1933, presumably May 23rd too. The weather was fine that day which would explain the white summer uniforms of the sailors.

Best regards
Torsten

Return to “Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general”