black sea campaign.

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mescal
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Re: black sea campaign.

#16

Post by mescal » 04 Apr 2009, 14:11

Hello,

You can check this page if you speak german :
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/41-06.htm

It look likes the entry
" 25.– 27.6.1941
Schwarzes Meer
Sowj. Vorstoß auf Konstanza."
is what you're looking for.

The order of battle given for the Red Fleet in the Black Sea at the begining of th campaign is :
Schwarzmeerflotte (VAdm. Oktyabrsky): 1 Schlachtschiff (Parishskaya Kommuna), 2 moderne Kreuzer (Voroshilov, Molotov), 3 alte Kreuzer und 1 Schulkreuzer (Krasny Kavkaz, Krasny Krym, Chervona Ukraina und Komintern), 3 Flottillenführer (Moskva, Kharkov und die ganz moderne, nach ital. Entwurf gebaute Tashkent), 5 alte Zerstörer (Frunze, Dzerzhinski, Nezamozhnik, Shaumyan, Zheleznyakov) und 8 moderne Zerstörer (Bodry, Bystry, Boiki, Besposhchadny, Bezuprechny, Bditelny, Smyshlenny, Soobrazitelny), 2 Wachschiffe (T-Boote), 47 U-Boote, 84 Torpedokutter, 15 Minensucher, 625 Flugzeuge.
Olivier

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Victor
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Re: black sea campaign.

#17

Post by Victor » 05 Apr 2009, 08:47



dragos03
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Re: black sea campaign.

#18

Post by dragos03 » 07 Apr 2009, 13:02

I would add a few things to Victor's excellent older post: in total, the Soviets lost 1 flotilla leader sunk; with 1 cruiser, 1 flotilla leader and 1 destroyer damaged.

The actual cause of the sinking of the flotilla leader Moskva is not 100% clear: while mines are the most likely cause, it is also possible that it was a hit from coastal battery Tirpitz or a lucky shot from one of the Romanian destroyers that blew up the ship's magazines.

Otherwise, gunfire was very accurate on both sides - the Soviet ships managed to damage their land targets, while the Romanian destroyers hit both their Soviet opponents from just a few salvoes.

There were several other small surface encounters during the war in the Black Sea:
- during the siege of Odessa, Soviet flotilla leader Tashkent was torpedoed from very close range by a Romanian MTB in a confusing encounter at night, the torpedo didn't arm and failed to explode, so no damage was done
- later in the war a Romanian old torpedo boat had a gunfire engagement with 3 Soviet ships (classed either as large minelayers or small destroyers) near the Romanian coast, no hits were scored
- during the evacuation of Crimea, Romanian convoys were attacked several times without success by Soviet MTBs

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Victor
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Re: black sea campaign.

#19

Post by Victor » 07 Apr 2009, 13:44

dragos03 wrote: - during the evacuation of Crimea, Romanian convoys were attacked several times without success by Soviet MTBs
If memory serves me correctly, one of the MTBs was destroyed by a German UJ, but I will have to check.

kriegsmarine221
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Re: black sea campaign.

#20

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 08 Apr 2009, 11:06

dragos03 wrote:I would add a few things to Victor's excellent older post: in total, the Soviets lost 1 flotilla leader sunk; with 1 cruiser, 1 flotilla leader and 1 destroyer damaged.

The actual cause of the sinking of the flotilla leader Moskva is not 100% clear: while mines are the most likely cause, it is also possible that it was a hit from coastal battery Tirpitz or a lucky shot from one of the Romanian destroyers that blew up the ship's magazines.

Otherwise, gunfire was very accurate on both sides - the Soviet ships managed to damage their land targets, while the Romanian destroyers hit both their Soviet opponents from just a few salvoes.

There were several other small surface encounters during the war in the Black Sea:
- during the siege of Odessa, Soviet flotilla leader Tashkent was torpedoed from very close range by a Romanian MTB in a confusing encounter at night, the torpedo didn't arm and failed to explode, so no damage was done
- later in the war a Romanian old torpedo boat had a gunfire engagement with 3 Soviet ships (classed either as large minelayers or small destroyers) near the Romanian coast, no hits were scored
- during the evacuation of Crimea, Romanian convoys were attacked several times without success by Soviet MTBs

woah did you say coastal battery tirpitz!? the tirpitz was in norway. and was their any soviet air power present?

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Re: black sea campaign.

#21

Post by dragos03 » 08 Apr 2009, 13:35

Of course the Tirpitz was in Norway. But the Germans had a 280 mm coastal battery near Constanta with the same name.

As for Soviet airpower, they were very active during the war, bombing the convoys and the Romanian ports many times. During the engagement when Moskva was sunk, a Soviet air raid was supposed to hit the port at the same time. However, coordination was poor and the bombers arrived late, being decimated by AA and fighters.

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Victor
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Re: black sea campaign.

#22

Post by Victor » 16 Apr 2009, 20:46

Victor wrote:
dragos03 wrote: - during the evacuation of Crimea, Romanian convoys were attacked several times without success by Soviet MTBs
If memory serves me correctly, one of the MTBs was destroyed by a German UJ, but I will have to check.
The soviet motor torpedo boat TKA-332 was sunk on 27 April 1944 by gunfire, after it attacked and hit UJ 104 together with TKA-334.

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carius
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Re: black sea campaign.

#23

Post by carius » 17 Apr 2009, 09:08

Sovet ships sunk and damaged by german schnellboots in Black Sea campain :

“Belostok” (transport ship),2048 t,19.06.1942,sunk (S-102)
“№ 0112” (patrol boat),03.07.1942,sunk (S-102,S-28,S-40,S-42)
“№ 0124” (patrol boat),03.07.1942,sunk (S-102,S-28,S-40,S-42)
“Sevastopol” (transport ship),1339 t,10.08.1942,sunk (S-102)
“Jan Tomp” (transport ship),1988 t,31.08.1942,sunk (S-102,S-28)
“Proletarii” (tug),02.09.1942,sunk (1st flotilia)
Small minesweeper,02.09.1942,sunk (1st flotilia)
“T-403” (minesweeper),28.02.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“Krasnaia Gruzia” (gunboat),28.02.1943,damaged (1st flotilia)
“Mius” (tug),28.02.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“Moskva” (oiler),6086 t,13.03.1943,damaged (S-26,S-47)
“№ 054” (patrol boat),18.04.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“Ilich” (schooner),04.05.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“Pervaish” (tug),20.05.1943,sunk (S-49,S-72)
“№ 75” (barge),20.05.1943,sunk (S-49,S-72)
“Ritza” (schooner),07.07.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“Petrash” (tug),08.08.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“№ 95” (PT boat),11.08.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“Nord-West” (small minesweeper),28.09.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“№ 155” (small minesweeper),28.09.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)
“№ 101” (PT boat),04.11.1943,sunk (1st flotilia)

Regards :D

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carius
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Re: black sea campaign.

#24

Post by carius » 17 Apr 2009, 09:24

Black Sea schnellboots
Attachments
S-47.jpg
S-47
S-47.jpg (9.5 KiB) Viewed 2866 times
S-40.jpg
S-40
S-40.jpg (13.61 KiB) Viewed 2863 times
S-102,June 1943.jpg
S-102,June 1943
S-102,June 1943.jpg (16.35 KiB) Viewed 2865 times

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carius
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Re: black sea campaign.

#25

Post by carius » 17 Apr 2009, 09:26

Black Sea schnellboots
Attachments
S-26,1942.jpg
S-26,1942
S-26,1942.jpg (18.68 KiB) Viewed 2859 times
S-28 crew.jpg
S-28 crew
S-28 crew.jpg (18.99 KiB) Viewed 2859 times

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carius
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Re: black sea campaign.

#26

Post by carius » 17 Apr 2009, 09:38

Kapitänleutnant Werner Töniges commander of Schnellboot S-102 in the 1. Schnellbootsflottille
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kriegsmarine221
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Re: black sea campaign.

#27

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 17 Apr 2009, 11:39

german torpedo boats in the black sea. photograph made by an ar-196.Image

kriegsmarine221
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Re: black sea campaign.

#28

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 17 Apr 2009, 11:40

soviet g-5 torpedo boat. capable of 40knots which was very fast back then.Image

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carius
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Re: black sea campaign.

#29

Post by carius » 17 Apr 2009, 12:22

kriegsmarine221 wrote:german torpedo boats in the black sea. photograph made by an ar-196.Image
This is the same soviet G-5 torpedo boats and the plane is not Ar-196,most likely it is soviet MBR-2!

Regards

kriegsmarine221
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Re: black sea campaign.

#30

Post by kriegsmarine221 » 17 Apr 2009, 23:29

oh dear. i think your right, even though the place i got the picture from said they were germans.

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