Building H-class Battleships

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nebelwerferXXX
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 25 Oct 2010 07:21

Prices of H-Class battleships:
1) Schlachtschiff H = RM 240,500,000 = 50 months to build
---H42 = 80,000 tons
---H43 = 111,000 tons
2) Schlachtschiff J = RM 237,600,000 = 50 months to build
Last edited by nebelwerferXXX on 26 Oct 2010 03:58, edited 1 time in total.

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LWD
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by LWD » 25 Oct 2010 12:19

nebelwerferXXX wrote:
nebelwerferXXX wrote:... In difference to them, those ships were planned with commerce war in mind, therefore diesel engines were selected instead of the usual high pressure steam engine used by the German navy in those days.
...
Were they? Do you have any sources that clearly indicate this?

nebelwerferXXX
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 25 Oct 2010 12:24

LWD wrote:
nebelwerferXXX wrote:
nebelwerferXXX wrote:... In difference to them, those ships were planned with commerce war in mind, therefore diesel engines were selected instead of the usual high pressure steam engine used by the German navy in those days.
...
Were they? Do you have any sources that clearly indicate this?
I would suggest you go through this site to double check your info.
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/index.html

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LWD
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by LWD » 25 Oct 2010 13:42

nebelwerferXXX wrote:
LWD wrote:
nebelwerferXXX wrote:
nebelwerferXXX wrote:... In difference to them, those ships were planned with commerce war in mind, therefore diesel engines were selected instead of the usual high pressure steam engine used by the German navy in those days.
...
Were they? Do you have any sources that clearly indicate this?
I would suggest you go through this site to double check your info.
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/index.html
???
Double check what info? Nothing on the page you listed mentions that the Z-plan was for conducting a "commerce war"? Indeed it doesn't make sense for that mission particularly when you look at Hitlers plans during that period. So just what are you basing your statement on?

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mescal
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by mescal » 25 Oct 2010 15:31

The H-class battleship were clearly designed with a battle line action in mind - as such they were the true heir of the Tirpitzian battleships of ww1.

Some parts of plan Z can be seen as related to commerce warfare (spähkreuzers), but not much.

As for the schlachtkreuzer OPQ - well, it's still a mystery (to me at least) what they were supposed to attempt - perhaps commerce raiding, but just because even the most optimistic admiral would have reservations before committing them to a battle line action.

Overall, I think it's clear that the initial purpose of the Z-plan was to take on the RN - commerce warfare only came later on, when it became clear that the initial task was hopeless.
Olivier

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Ironmachine
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by Ironmachine » 25 Oct 2010 15:51

LWD wrote:???
Double check what info? Nothing on the page you listed mentions that the Z-plan was for conducting a "commerce war"? Indeed it doesn't make sense for that mission particularly when you look at Hitlers plans during that period. So just what are you basing your statement on?
In fact, nebelwerferXXX have just copied the text of this page
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ ... story.html
and "forgot" to use the quote function and post the source link (it's not the first time that he does that :roll: ).
So probably his source is just this sentence: "In difference to them, those ships were planned with commerce war in mind, therefore diesel engines were selected instead of the usual high pressure steam engine used by the German navy in those days".

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LWD
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by LWD » 25 Oct 2010 16:02

mescal wrote:... Overall, I think it's clear that the initial purpose of the Z-plan was to take on the RN - commerce warfare only came later on, when it became clear that the initial task was hopeless.
I'm not so certain about that. Up until Britain declared war on Germany Hitler saw them as allies rather than opponents.
Which brings to question: Why the Z plan? An argument could be that it was meant to overmatch France or other European navies. Or for some future conflict with the RN. Or perhaps it really didn't have a purpose other than to exist as a major surface fleet. The latter would be consistent with the lack of funding supporting it especially once the war started. It would also be consistent with the some what erratic nature of planning in Nazi Germany.
Ironmachine wrote:
LWD wrote:???
Double check what info? Nothing on the page you listed mentions that the Z-plan was for conducting a "commerce war"? Indeed it doesn't make sense for that mission particularly when you look at Hitlers plans during that period. So just what are you basing your statement on?
In fact, nebelwerferXXX have just copied the text of this page
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ ... story.html
and "forgot" to use the quote function and post the source link (it's not the first time that he does that :roll: ).
So probably his source is just this sentence: "In difference to them, those ships were planned with commerce war in mind, therefore diesel engines were selected instead of the usual high pressure steam engine used by the German navy in those days".
Which brings to question why they state that? Certainly the H class battleships seem over kill as commerce raiders.

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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 28 Oct 2010 01:46

Why was it that the battleships of the 'Z-plan' started from the letter H? Thanks!

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Ironmachine
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by Ironmachine » 28 Oct 2010 07:13

They followed the sequence. The first ship, which gave name to the class, was named H because she came after Bismarck and Tirpitz, which were respectively Battleships F and G.

nebelwerferXXX
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 29 Oct 2010 05:38

What's the name of the ship for:
battleship A? =
battleship B? =
battleship C? =
battleship D? =
battleship E? =
Thanks! I am doing a research for my Project Paper including also the 'Z-plan'.

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Ironmachine
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by Ironmachine » 29 Oct 2010 06:59

Panzerschiff A: Deutschland
Panzerschiff B: Admiral Scheer
Panzerschiff C: Admiral Graf von Spee
Schlachtschiff D: Scharnhorst
Schlachtschiff E: Gneisenau

nebelwerferXXX
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 29 Oct 2010 07:23

My listings are almost half-way finish for my Project Paper.

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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by Kriegsmarine1940 » 12 Nov 2010 20:46


nebelwerferXXX
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by nebelwerferXXX » 14 Nov 2010 06:18

Battleship Design:
1) Greater speeds were achieved through machinery improvements.
2) Dual-purpose surface AA armament was developed.
3) Facilities for handling and maintaining reconnaissance aircraft.
4) With built-in hangars and catapults were included.
5) Radar-assisted fire control was implemented.

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mescal
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Re: Building H-class Battleships

Post by mescal » 15 Nov 2010 17:01

There is a bit more in battleship design than the points you list.
Actually, all five of those points are as relevant to cruisers as they are to battleships.

And if one is interested in German battleship design, it is to be noted that the Kriegsmarine stuck to a secondary anti ship battery and a distinct tertiary AA battery (up to and including the H designs).
Moreover, the radar-assisted firecontrol was not developped as such, and lagged behind the US and UK practice.
Olivier

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